condensation: round 2

wymjym · 10-23-2002, 07:00 PM

Hi,
Well I thought I had it handled but not quite.
Now I think I do. check it out here
wj

MadDogMe · 10-24-2002, 04:08 AM

Would'nt of been easier to put the 156watt pelt on the CPU?, with the VPC to stop condensation?...

BrianH · 10-24-2002, 06:20 AM

We do not water cool to because it is easy.... we do it because it is fun and we have a chance to experiment with hardware. This is his experiment and, in my opinion

, looks pretty cool

Keep up the work wymjym

wymjym · 10-24-2002, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
Would'nt of been easier to put the 156watt pelt on the CPU?, with the VPC to stop condensation?...

Yes it would but in the event of a failure:

pelt=the cpu would burn up and maybe the mobo would also be damaged

(pelt)ps= the cpu would burn up

pump= the pelt would die and then take out the cpu and maybe the mobo

this way I have two pelts in the even that one fails, I have water within the waterblock if the pump or (pelt)ps die. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I would have needed to add a powerful ps to my case which would have added a little heat and some noise, this way the chiller is external and while extremely quiet in operation it seems even quieter because I have it located out of ear shot.
wj

MadDogMe · 10-25-2002, 04:33 AM

I'd have the pelt PSU and pump wired into the same plug as the PC, so if one fuse goes they all stop kinda thing. I'd use a relay for the pump & TEC as well (the TEC does'nt need to be turned on before does it?), so if the PC shuts down so do they. if the TEC fails or the pump the PC should auto shutdown should'nt it?, MBM5 has this even if the native hardware monitor has'nt...

PS. Don't get me wrong, I love a wacky experiment as much as the next geek

...

wymjym · 10-25-2002, 08:28 AM

Like I said before...different strokes for different folks.
please let me point out something:

I'd have the pelt PSU and pump wired into the same plug as the PC, so if one fuse goes they all stop kinda thing.

that would protect if the psu or pump shorted out and brought down the fuse, what if the internal ps fuse blew? or the pump impellar was damaged/quit spinning?

I'd use a relay for the pump & TEC as well (the TEC does'nt need to be turned on before does it?), so if the PC shuts down so do they. if the TEC fails or the pump the PC should auto shutdown should'nt it?, MBM5 has this even if the native hardware monitor has'nt...

Yes, yes, yes..some sort of temp monitoring is necessary for safe operation. I use mbm and the bios as 'redundant' safeguards. In my ambient chiller setup the pump,pelt,etc is turned on when the computer is booted. I currently am using a powerstrip with a built in 12V sensing relay. It requires a molex jumper from the computer's ps to run to the strip. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also have a really cool autosensing pstrip. Just plug the computer in one socket and the other 4 sockets 'turn on' when the computer draws current. I will set this up soon.

I have read and scratched my head for many months concerning the most appropriate means to achieve my goals. I have changed my mind several times, deviated a little one way or the other but still believe that I currently have an extremely reliable, cool (pun intended) chilling circuit that is very, very quiet....is remote which allows me to mod the inside of the case at will....and can be pulled out of the water circuit if need be by simply detaching two water lines (I would then attach the two lines from my water circuit--pump/res/heatercore--that is normally used to cool the hot side of the pelts)

Isn't it great that we can all go down different paths and yet find the same rainbow?
wj

bigben2k · 10-25-2002, 08:36 AM

Nice work wymjym!

I also believe that the redundancy aspect is very important. Right now, I'm leaning towards a flow sensor (not to be confused with a flow meter). I will most definitely add a relay to start the pump. My goal is to make the water mod as transparent as possible, so that the computer can be used like any other computer.

As for a TEC (MadDogMe), well, that's where it gets tricky: if your cooling solution is pretty extreme, and you've seriously overclocked your CPU, you might need a startup sequence where the pump and TEC turn on first, cool the CPU to the starting temp (which won't be ambient), then fire up the computer. It's not hard to do, but it is a little bit of work, especially to merge that with the above.

As usual, everything should be transparent: you don't want to flip 2,3 or 4 switches to turn your comp on!

airspirit · 10-25-2002, 09:22 AM

But Ben, the inner geek demands not only a whole bank of switches, but a big LED display with a countdown timer on it. A really sexy way to do this would be to take a kitched egg timer and modify it with momentary contact switches so that as the knob turns (use one of the five minute types) the different switches get hit causing the next circuit to fire up, so that your pump starts, then your TEC, then ten seconds later your CPU. I'm sure there is something better to use than an egg timer, cos all you need is something that rotates at a set speed. Don't ask me about the circuits youd need to trip the thing with a momentary switch cos I can't help you there, but it would be a n33t solution. Imagine cranking a dial and watching everything automatically fire up ....

wymjym · 10-25-2002, 09:45 AM

If you are looking for that thrill...you should simply view the boot up of windows in the dos mode....ten thousand commands scrolling across your screen faster than you can read them.
:-)
wj

bigben2k · 10-25-2002, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
But Ben, the inner geek demands not only a whole bank of switches, but a big LED display with a countdown timer on it. A really sexy way to do this would be to take a kitched egg timer and modify it with momentary contact switches so that as the knob turns (use one of the five minute types) the different switches get hit causing the next circuit to fire up, so that your pump starts, then your TEC, then ten seconds later your CPU. I'm sure there is something better to use than an egg timer, cos all you need is something that rotates at a set speed. Don't ask me about the circuits youd need to trip the thing with a momentary switch cos I can't help you there, but it would be a n33t solution. Imagine cranking a dial and watching everything automatically fire up ....

I don't agree on the uber geek multi switch watch-out-she's-gonna-blow ghetto setup, but I'll give you the countdown timer. Fairly easy to do actually. (an article?)

MadDogMe · 10-25-2002, 10:33 AM

Most people use a thermostat for sub~zero TEC use don't they?, from what I've read...

I was going to use an on/off flow sensor on my KX7 but the 'CPU Fan Fail shutdown' option in the BIOS is broken!

, it's not just my mobo either. Bladerunner's(who's idea it was to use it) KX7 will boot without a fan on the header with the option selected and won't shutdown if fan is stopped or header plug pulled while running in windows. mine wont boot if the headers empty, but once it's running in W98 you can stop the fan or pull the header out and it still won't shut down. you can use MBM5 but the Abit hardware method would be best...

BB2K how would you utilise the flow sensor to shutdown the PC?, MBM5 or such?, can you think of a hardware method?, maybe a curcuit breaker to cut PC power on a delay/timer?(to allow time for pump to start), is such a curcuit possible to make at home you think?...

bigben2k · 10-25-2002, 10:54 AM

Yeah, it's possible, and not terribly complicated either.

Personally, I think that it's always best to do a software shutdown, instead of forcing a power cut off. That's the part that's complicated to do. Also, if the software shutdown doesn't work, then there must be a hardware override.

I don't know, I'm not there yet!

10-23-2002, 07:00 PM	#1
wymjym Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: near Austin Posts: 96	condensation: round 2 Hi, Well I thought I had it handled but not quite. Now I think I do. check it out here wj

10-25-2002, 08:36 AM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Nice work wymjym! I also believe that the redundancy aspect is very important. Right now, I'm leaning towards a flow sensor (not to be confused with a flow meter). I will most definitely add a relay to start the pump. My goal is to make the water mod as transparent as possible, so that the computer can be used like any other computer. As for a TEC (MadDogMe), well, that's where it gets tricky: if your cooling solution is pretty extreme, and you've seriously overclocked your CPU, you might need a startup sequence where the pump and TEC turn on first, cool the CPU to the starting temp (which won't be ambient), then fire up the computer. It's not hard to do, but it is a little bit of work, especially to merge that with the above. As usual, everything should be transparent: you don't want to flip 2,3 or 4 switches to turn your comp on! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-25-2002, 09:22 AM	#8
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	But Ben, the inner geek demands not only a whole bank of switches, but a big LED display with a countdown timer on it. A really sexy way to do this would be to take a kitched egg timer and modify it with momentary contact switches so that as the knob turns (use one of the five minute types) the different switches get hit causing the next circuit to fire up, so that your pump starts, then your TEC, then ten seconds later your CPU. I'm sure there is something better to use than an egg timer, cos all you need is something that rotates at a set speed. Don't ask me about the circuits youd need to trip the thing with a momentary switch cos I can't help you there, but it would be a n33t solution. Imagine cranking a dial and watching everything automatically fire up .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-25-2002, 10:54 AM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yeah, it's possible, and not terribly complicated either. Personally, I think that it's always best to do a software shutdown, instead of forcing a power cut off. That's the part that's complicated to do. Also, if the software shutdown doesn't work, then there must be a hardware override. I don't know, I'm not there yet! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 04:08 AM	#2
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Would'nt of been easier to put the 156watt pelt on the CPU?, with the VPC to stop condensation?...

10-24-2002, 06:20 AM	#3
BrianH Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ont, Canada Posts: 115	We do not water cool to because it is easy.... we do it because it is fun and we have a chance to experiment with hardware. This is his experiment and, in my opinion , looks pretty cool Keep up the work wymjym

10-25-2002, 04:33 AM	#5
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I'd have the pelt PSU and pump wired into the same plug as the PC, so if one fuse goes they all stop kinda thing. I'd use a relay for the pump & TEC as well (the TEC does'nt need to be turned on before does it?), so if the PC shuts down so do they. if the TEC fails or the pump the PC should auto shutdown should'nt it?, MBM5 has this even if the native hardware monitor has'nt... PS. Don't get me wrong, I love a wacky experiment as much as the next geek ...

10-25-2002, 08:28 AM	#6
wymjym Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: near Austin Posts: 96	Like I said before...different strokes for different folks. please let me point out something: I'd have the pelt PSU and pump wired into the same plug as the PC, so if one fuse goes they all stop kinda thing. that would protect if the psu or pump shorted out and brought down the fuse, what if the internal ps fuse blew? or the pump impellar was damaged/quit spinning? I'd use a relay for the pump & TEC as well (the TEC does'nt need to be turned on before does it?), so if the PC shuts down so do they. if the TEC fails or the pump the PC should auto shutdown should'nt it?, MBM5 has this even if the native hardware monitor has'nt... Yes, yes, yes..some sort of temp monitoring is necessary for safe operation. I use mbm and the bios as 'redundant' safeguards. In my ambient chiller setup the pump,pelt,etc is turned on when the computer is booted. I currently am using a powerstrip with a built in 12V sensing relay. It requires a molex jumper from the computer's ps to run to the strip. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also have a really cool autosensing pstrip. Just plug the computer in one socket and the other 4 sockets 'turn on' when the computer draws current. I will set this up soon. I have read and scratched my head for many months concerning the most appropriate means to achieve my goals. I have changed my mind several times, deviated a little one way or the other but still believe that I currently have an extremely reliable, cool (pun intended) chilling circuit that is very, very quiet....is remote which allows me to mod the inside of the case at will....and can be pulled out of the water circuit if need be by simply detaching two water lines (I would then attach the two lines from my water circuit--pump/res/heatercore--that is normally used to cool the hot side of the pelts) Isn't it great that we can all go down different paths and yet find the same rainbow? wj

10-25-2002, 09:45 AM	#9
wymjym Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: near Austin Posts: 96	If you are looking for that thrill...you should simply view the boot up of windows in the dos mode....ten thousand commands scrolling across your screen faster than you can read them. :-) wj

10-25-2002, 10:33 AM	#11
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Most people use a thermostat for sub~zero TEC use don't they?, from what I've read... I was going to use an on/off flow sensor on my KX7 but the 'CPU Fan Fail shutdown' option in the BIOS is broken! , it's not just my mobo either. Bladerunner's(who's idea it was to use it) KX7 will boot without a fan on the header with the option selected and won't shutdown if fan is stopped or header plug pulled while running in windows. mine wont boot if the headers empty, but once it's running in W98 you can stop the fan or pull the header out and it still won't shut down. you can use MBM5 but the Abit hardware method would be best... BB2K how would you utilise the flow sensor to shutdown the PC?, MBM5 or such?, can you think of a hardware method?, maybe a curcuit breaker to cut PC power on a delay/timer?(to allow time for pump to start), is such a curcuit possible to make at home you think?...

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