Been at it again folks.... GF3 Ram block MKII

BladeRunner · 09-29-2001, 08:39 AM

All copper this time. Turning the drilled coolant channel holes into slots was fun to say the least, I really risked destroying my "poor" milling equipment in making this: -

BladeRunner · 09-29-2001, 08:40 AM

I then tinned the block and base plate with solder using a blow lamp and when cool coated both with flux and put in in the oven at 250°C for an hour with some extra copper placed on top for weight. Turned the oven off after an hour let it cool and then cut out around it. Side with pipe unions is filed clean and I then made the brass unions and polished it up. Water goes in and comes out so it seems fine so far.

Will finish it and pressure check it to see if my soldering was any good?. Only down side is the weight of it. If it works well I might get a few CNC'd to remove as much metal as possible.

gmat · 09-29-2001, 01:55 PM

Oh yeah. Having it CNC'd would be great tho.

morphling1 · 09-29-2001, 02:37 PM

Great job again . But I don't think there would be much different temp. of memory if you would use ALU. The surface of memory chips are much larger than AMD kind of cpu, where you must as quickly as possible spread heat to larger surface. And the weight will probably be problematic for video card to hold on it's own. I would use ALU. and create as much surface area I can. But the thing I love with copper, is that you can solder.

BladeRunner · 09-29-2001, 04:35 PM

I agree I don't think it will make much difference, but what the heck. I wanted to make another as I don't own the original anymore and I wanted to try and improve on it. The channelling is better than the original pictured below, together with a final pic of the new one. Like you say solder is great and as such the base has no screw holes. I'm also trying to get to an all copper block system for my next water-cooling project which will hopefully be pump free.

redleader · 09-29-2001, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Great job again . But I don't think there would be much different temp. of memory if you would use ALU. The surface of memory chips are much larger than AMD kind of cpu, where you must as quickly as possible spread heat to larger surface. And the weight will probably be problematic for video card to hold on it's own. I would use ALU. and create as much surface area I can. But the thing I love with copper, is that you can solder.

Except that it is almost never worth it to mix Al with Cu. I agree that it will perform about the same, but its worth the extra weight to not worry about antifreeze.

gmat · 09-30-2001, 07:47 AM

Man i know many professionals who would be jealous.
Everything from the quality of your work to clean and pro photographs is top notch. Come on, make money out of it !
(ok i confess, i'd like to buy stuff like this)

morphling1 · 09-30-2001, 07:54 AM

What about 2 component epoxy glue on two part of ALU waterblock. I use it a lot.UHU plus endfest 300 is excelent, I just put everything in the oven at 100°C and in 20 min I've got bond that can hold 2500N/cm2 which is more than enough for this kind of use.

BladeRunner · 09-30-2001, 08:30 AM

SureFoot
Thanks,

better milling equipment would be nice, but all I'm trying to prove is it doesn't require super expensive tooling or skills to produce stuff like this, Just some time effort and dedication.

morphling1
Most glues even epoxies are not recommended for continuous immersion. Also mixing metals especially aluminium and copper is bad if you want a water only system. If you are going to use epoxy maybe a thermal transfer type would be better like Artic Silver.

morphling1 · 09-30-2001, 10:08 AM

The epoxy I mentioned before is resistant to water,chemicals like diluted acids, gasoline, many solvents ... and only the edge of the joint is in direct contact with water and in no way could water penetrate through. I didn't mean mixing metals, I meant glue all aluminium water block, bottom part with channels and the flat top. I don't know how arctic silver epoxy is resistant, but I don't think it's better than epoxy that can be used in all kind of enviroments.

BladeRunner · 09-30-2001, 12:30 PM

If you are happy using an epoxy on its own so be it, I wouldn't personally. "Resistant" is a the key word and if the Glue, Epoxy etc, is the only bond holding in all together I would not trust it over a long period of immersion as this could slowly break down the bond until one day it just falls off. Probably wont happen but it's another possible reliability "risk" I'd rather rule out.

Mixing metals was referring to different blocks in the system. If a water only system is required then all the blocks rad and everthing in the system needs to be of one metal type to avoid galvanic corrosion, and copper is preferable over alu for performance.

I wasn't suggesting Artic silver was a better epoxy but it will at least transfer heat rather than act as a insulator of it. I used it as a seal on the first block that is held together with screws.

BaconGrease · 10-01-2001, 10:06 AM

Absolutely amazing!
i need to get some tools.

Jason-Pro · 10-01-2001, 07:10 PM

whens the cool computers blocks gonna be done blade have you talked to craig latley

jtroutma · 10-02-2001, 02:34 AM

BladeRunner,

First of all, must say that I enjoy looking at your handy work and give applause where it is needed and well deserved.

I was wondering about those CU fins that you have in the pics.... would it be possible to make a RAM block that consisted of those fins in contact with the water and have maybe some sort of plexi-glass casing? Use screws to keep the pieces together and maybe some sort of "glue" to keep them sealed?

Probably would not be soo bad at cooling and MUCH lighter

If you would be willing to make something like that, I would pay for it

Got my own GeForce3 waiting for a great solution like that.

Again great work on the all CU block but I must agree that it would be a bit on the heavy side + CU waterblock for the core + water.........

But CU is the way to go for better performace and NO ANTIFREEZE!!!!! (dislike antifreeze

Thanks and good luck on future projects!

BladeRunner · 10-02-2001, 03:10 AM

Jason

Last I heard, (which was last week), is that they are almost ready, tops were being sent away for anodising. I'm sure Craig is doing it all as fast a possible but I'm also sure it's difficult to get everything right while ensuring quality and trying to meet deadlines. It is after all a new specialized product produced on a small scale by a small fish, even giants like Nvidia with all their resources struggle to meet their set target dates.

jtroutma

Thanks for the compliments, The sinks pictured were mainly included in the image as a reflection item to show up the finish on the block. I was trying to be "arty" as they are also what the ram block replaces on the Asus card. They are orange anodised Aluminium and the standard cooling solution on the Asus GF3.

What you suggest could be possible with maybe a milled out block of Perspex and a rubber seal on a copper sink. It would however be beyond my tooling and harder to make than my all copper block. It could look good but it would not really be seen when in use. It's a nice "image" idea and if I ever get some better milling equipment I might try it one day.

clone · 10-02-2001, 08:49 PM

call me nieve but arnt there ram chips on both sides of the pcb if so what is the point of cooliln only one side

BladeRunner · 10-09-2001, 03:15 PM

GF2 Ultra & GF3 were the first Geforce cards designed to have ram sinks in reference format. As such I suppose nVidia choose to redesign the PCB with all the Ram on one side for cost and or assembly reasons.

Here's some pics of the finished card including a pic of the back, blocks are retained with screws using nylon washers for PCB protection, no gluing or card modification required.

Nice to have the forums back BTW Joe

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: BladeRunner ]

Mumrik · 10-09-2001, 08:55 PM

You know you deserve a spanking for this

It looks even cooler than the first one!
Very very nice job there BladeRunner..

BaconGrease · 10-11-2001, 08:34 AM

Once again that is an amazing bit of work!
My question... (and I think it has been brought up a couple of times) is how well does it sit in the AGP slot?
Have you added any extra support to the card?

Kevin · 10-11-2001, 01:34 PM

Geez that is amazing looking!

Quote:

Originally posted by BaconGrease:
how well does it sit in the AGP slot?
Have you added any extra support to the card?

Yah i'm wondering that too. Its gotta be heavier than a mofo...
-Kevin

BladeRunner · 10-11-2001, 05:07 PM

I took it all to the supermarket before assembly and weighed it on the digital fresh veg scales, got some very weird looks

Here are the results

Standard Asus v8200 GF3 Deluxe 215 grams

Bare card, (no GPU heatsink fan or ram sinks) 155 grams

GPU block with barbs 190 grams

RAM block with barbs 280 grams

Total water-cooled card weight (dry) 625 grams.

So by the time coolant is added and the block retaining screws it will be almost 3X the weight of a standard Asus card...

Once fixed into the PC it doesn't appear to be a problem PCB's are pretty strong. i may make a support for it but the "L" shaped ram block does help brace the card.

New cooler Temps are a bit better, and my homemade GPU block beats the Danger Den one too, which is pleasing

Windows apps temp @ 250/570 coolant at 14°C

Gaming temps also 250/570 with coolant at 14°C, (running the Aquarium D3D screen saver for an hour).

Kevin · 10-11-2001, 07:45 PM

send me some...

joeyd · 10-11-2001, 08:10 PM

http://www.theinquirer.net/11100103.htm BladeRunner looks like everyone wants to be like you.

BladeRunner · 10-11-2001, 08:29 PM

Yeah, funny how they praise it for being the first, we know better hey,

and I don't mean myself either as there was at least one other full homemade GF3 water-cooler before mine, (very industrial looking however).

The 3D power's images are all computer generated and the one I had seen is different, shown below, so I'm not sure about this yet....just marketing? hope not, as I'll take it on any day

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: BladeRunner ]

Petrus · 10-17-2001, 12:53 PM

Verry nice as always!!

To bad Leadtek glues their ram heatsinks, otherwice I'd putt ram blocks on my GF3 as well! (don't want to glue them)

Having seen both your designs, the next GF3 (Ti 500) I get will be one with holes for attaching the ramsinks. Is ASUS the only one that does this??

Thanks a lot for your inspiration!!! Keep it up!

09-29-2001, 08:39 AM	#1
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	Been at it again folks.... GF3 Ram block MKII All copper this time. Turning the drilled coolant channel holes into slots was fun to say the least, I really risked destroying my "poor" milling equipment in making this: -

09-29-2001, 08:40 AM	#2
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	I then tinned the block and base plate with solder using a blow lamp and when cool coated both with flux and put in in the oven at 250°C for an hour with some extra copper placed on top for weight. Turned the oven off after an hour let it cool and then cut out around it. Side with pipe unions is filed clean and I then made the brass unions and polished it up. Water goes in and comes out so it seems fine so far. Will finish it and pressure check it to see if my soldering was any good?. Only down side is the weight of it. If it works well I might get a few CNC'd to remove as much metal as possible. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

09-29-2001, 02:37 PM	#4
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Great job again . But I don't think there would be much different temp. of memory if you would use ALU. The surface of memory chips are much larger than AMD kind of cpu, where you must as quickly as possible spread heat to larger surface. And the weight will probably be problematic for video card to hold on it's own. I would use ALU. and create as much surface area I can. But the thing I love with copper, is that you can solder. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

09-29-2001, 04:35 PM	#5
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	I agree I don't think it will make much difference, but what the heck. I wanted to make another as I don't own the original anymore and I wanted to try and improve on it. The channelling is better than the original pictured below, together with a final pic of the new one. Like you say solder is great and as such the base has no screw holes. I'm also trying to get to an all copper block system for my next water-cooling project which will hopefully be pump free. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

09-30-2001, 07:54 AM	#8
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	What about 2 component epoxy glue on two part of ALU waterblock. I use it a lot.UHU plus endfest 300 is excelent, I just put everything in the oven at 100°C and in 20 min I've got bond that can hold 2500N/cm2 which is more than enough for this kind of use. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

09-29-2001, 01:55 PM	#3
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Oh yeah. Having it CNC'd would be great tho.

09-30-2001, 07:47 AM	#7
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Man i know many professionals who would be jealous. Everything from the quality of your work to clean and pro photographs is top notch. Come on, make money out of it ! (ok i confess, i'd like to buy stuff like this)

09-30-2001, 08:30 AM	#9
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	SureFoot Thanks, better milling equipment would be nice, but all I'm trying to prove is it doesn't require super expensive tooling or skills to produce stuff like this, Just some time effort and dedication. morphling1 Most glues even epoxies are not recommended for continuous immersion. Also mixing metals especially aluminium and copper is bad if you want a water only system. If you are going to use epoxy maybe a thermal transfer type would be better like Artic Silver. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

09-30-2001, 10:08 AM	#10
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	The epoxy I mentioned before is resistant to water,chemicals like diluted acids, gasoline, many solvents ... and only the edge of the joint is in direct contact with water and in no way could water penetrate through. I didn't mean mixing metals, I meant glue all aluminium water block, bottom part with channels and the flat top. I don't know how arctic silver epoxy is resistant, but I don't think it's better than epoxy that can be used in all kind of enviroments. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

09-30-2001, 12:30 PM	#11
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	If you are happy using an epoxy on its own so be it, I wouldn't personally. "Resistant" is a the key word and if the Glue, Epoxy etc, is the only bond holding in all together I would not trust it over a long period of immersion as this could slowly break down the bond until one day it just falls off. Probably wont happen but it's another possible reliability "risk" I'd rather rule out. Mixing metals was referring to different blocks in the system. If a water only system is required then all the blocks rad and everthing in the system needs to be of one metal type to avoid galvanic corrosion, and copper is preferable over alu for performance. I wasn't suggesting Artic silver was a better epoxy but it will at least transfer heat rather than act as a insulator of it. I used it as a seal on the first block that is held together with screws. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-01-2001, 10:06 AM	#12
BaconGrease Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Richmond Posts: 85	Absolutely amazing! i need to get some tools. __________________ Damn that is hot

10-01-2001, 07:10 PM	#13
Jason-Pro Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin Posts: 217	whens the cool computers blocks gonna be done blade have you talked to craig latley

10-02-2001, 02:34 AM	#14
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	BladeRunner, First of all, must say that I enjoy looking at your handy work and give applause where it is needed and well deserved. I was wondering about those CU fins that you have in the pics.... would it be possible to make a RAM block that consisted of those fins in contact with the water and have maybe some sort of plexi-glass casing? Use screws to keep the pieces together and maybe some sort of "glue" to keep them sealed? Probably would not be soo bad at cooling and MUCH lighter If you would be willing to make something like that, I would pay for it Got my own GeForce3 waiting for a great solution like that. Again great work on the all CU block but I must agree that it would be a bit on the heavy side + CU waterblock for the core + water......... But CU is the way to go for better performace and NO ANTIFREEZE!!!!! (dislike antifreeze Thanks and good luck on future projects! __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

10-02-2001, 03:10 AM	#15
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	Jason Last I heard, (which was last week), is that they are almost ready, tops were being sent away for anodising. I'm sure Craig is doing it all as fast a possible but I'm also sure it's difficult to get everything right while ensuring quality and trying to meet deadlines. It is after all a new specialized product produced on a small scale by a small fish, even giants like Nvidia with all their resources struggle to meet their set target dates. jtroutma Thanks for the compliments, The sinks pictured were mainly included in the image as a reflection item to show up the finish on the block. I was trying to be "arty" as they are also what the ram block replaces on the Asus card. They are orange anodised Aluminium and the standard cooling solution on the Asus GF3. What you suggest could be possible with maybe a milled out block of Perspex and a rubber seal on a copper sink. It would however be beyond my tooling and harder to make than my all copper block. It could look good but it would not really be seen when in use. It's a nice "image" idea and if I ever get some better milling equipment I might try it one day. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-02-2001, 08:49 PM	#16
clone Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: West Springfield, MA Posts: 160	call me nieve but arnt there ram chips on both sides of the pcb if so what is the point of cooliln only one side

10-09-2001, 03:15 PM	#17
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	GF2 Ultra & GF3 were the first Geforce cards designed to have ram sinks in reference format. As such I suppose nVidia choose to redesign the PCB with all the Ram on one side for cost and or assembly reasons. Here's some pics of the finished card including a pic of the back, blocks are retained with screws using nylon washers for PCB protection, no gluing or card modification required. Nice to have the forums back BTW Joe [ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: BladeRunner ] __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-09-2001, 08:55 PM	#18
Mumrik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 39	You know you deserve a spanking for this It looks even cooler than the first one! Very very nice job there BladeRunner..

10-11-2001, 08:34 AM	#19
BaconGrease Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Richmond Posts: 85	Once again that is an amazing bit of work! My question... (and I think it has been brought up a couple of times) is how well does it sit in the AGP slot? Have you added any extra support to the card? __________________ Damn that is hot

10-11-2001, 05:07 PM	#21
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	I took it all to the supermarket before assembly and weighed it on the digital fresh veg scales, got some very weird looks Here are the results Standard Asus v8200 GF3 Deluxe 215 grams Bare card, (no GPU heatsink fan or ram sinks) 155 grams GPU block with barbs 190 grams RAM block with barbs 280 grams Total water-cooled card weight (dry) 625 grams. So by the time coolant is added and the block retaining screws it will be almost 3X the weight of a standard Asus card... Once fixed into the PC it doesn't appear to be a problem PCB's are pretty strong. i may make a support for it but the "L" shaped ram block does help brace the card. New cooler Temps are a bit better, and my homemade GPU block beats the Danger Den one too, which is pleasing Windows apps temp @ 250/570 coolant at 14°C Gaming temps also 250/570 with coolant at 14°C, (running the Aquarium D3D screen saver for an hour). __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-11-2001, 07:45 PM	#22
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	send me some... __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

10-11-2001, 08:10 PM	#23
joeyd Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: new jersey Posts: 142	http://www.theinquirer.net/11100103.htm BladeRunner looks like everyone wants to be like you. __________________ soyo dragon kt333. axp 2000 1gig of ddr333 ati radeon 9700 pro My Heatware

10-11-2001, 08:29 PM	#24
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	Yeah, funny how they praise it for being the first, we know better hey, and I don't mean myself either as there was at least one other full homemade GF3 water-cooler before mine, (very industrial looking however). The 3D power's images are all computer generated and the one I had seen is different, shown below, so I'm not sure about this yet....just marketing? hope not, as I'll take it on any day [ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: BladeRunner ] __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-17-2001, 12:53 PM	#25
Petrus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 18	Verry nice as always!! To bad Leadtek glues their ram heatsinks, otherwice I'd putt ram blocks on my GF3 as well! (don't want to glue them) Having seen both your designs, the next GF3 (Ti 500) I get will be one with holes for attaching the ramsinks. Is ASUS the only one that does this?? Thanks a lot for your inspiration!!! Keep it up! __________________ "Hard to se The Dark Side is"

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