i need some overclocking advice...

[phill9700]

hi guys
i have had my 1700xp for some time now, but i just received my Corsair XMS 3200 Twinx DDR yesterday and i need some help..
i have managed to get my 3dmark score to nealry 18k, im about 400 points off and im ineed of a few pointers, as i think im doing something wrong..
my cpu is currently set to 204x11 (2254Mhz) with aggressive settings to the cpu, i have the memory set to cas 2 2-2-5 and my agp ap set to 512... my cpu voltage is set to 1.75v i think.. my idle temp is about 42C or so, it goes near to 46C - 48C when under stress i think...
now when i try going any higher than 207fsb, the pc boots, goes through a few tests and then a black screen and then nothing at all. only a reset will bring this beast back to life..
my 9700 pro, stucks when it comes to overclocking, as it will only go up to 373/335 and anything more, crashes or hangs 3dmark 2001se, which really annoys me..
is there anything more i can try? i have tried setting it too 11.5 x 200 and im getting slightly lower scores than what im getting now.. the most i have gotten from the cpu i think is just under 2400Mhz (something like 11.5 x 204 or something near to that).. i want to break this 18k barrer!! please help someone!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0">
another thing, my 'Environment Bump Mapping' seems to only be going at 150fps.. shouldnt it be higher than this?

Addiction : also memory voltage is up to 2.9volts, my agp voltage is at 1.6v, but the agp speed is set to auto. i have slightly older drivers for the graphics card installed and also i only have directx 8.1 installed as both the newer drivers and directx 9 seems to slow it down a bit... agp is set 8x and i have got fast writes enabled in the smartgart tab of the graphics card drivers. Also my north bridge heat sink (standard by the way) seems cool, (i can put my figures on it when its been on for 6 hours straight) and also my memory is also cool, no tempurature coming off of there either..

[bigben2k]

That's still a massive overclock.

Is your NB HSF stock/original?

If you feel adventurous, you might want to look into the chipset voltage mod. You'll have to Google for it, unless someone is kind enough to point you to it.

Your Idle temp looks normal (although high if it was watercooled), but your Load temps aren't consistent.

I doubt you'll reach 18k: it looks like you maxed out on the VC and RAM.

You might be able to pull a bit more out of the CPU, with better cooling. The funny thing is, you should be able to do better with that RAM, but I've heard some people reporting results very similar to yours.:shrug:

[phill9700]

my heat sink is a spire falcon rock, before i was overclocking it, temps where below 32C when idling but now they are about 42C..

what do you mean by the chipset mod? what would that do? nah, my setup isnt water cooled!! sadly, i might be able to get more out of it if it was!!

do you think another board might make a difference?
i was thinking of try the abit nf7-s and another xp1700.. what you think?
i thought the ram would go higher, but its weird, worked at 2356mhz earlier this after noon, but now wont work at all.. (205 x 11.5)

im not to worried about it, like you say its a hell of an overclock anyway.. im glad ive got it this far!! its just 18k sounds so much better than 17.5k!!!

thanks for the help!!

[jtroutma]

OK..........

What BigBen is refering to is that you can increase the voltage to the NorthBridge Chipset and thus probably get your FSB up a bit more. Unfortunately, this requires some soldering. Check to make sure that your Vdd/Vchipset voltage is up to its max in your BIOS, ABIT boards allow you to do that.

Also, what do you mean your 9700 sucks?!??! 373/335 is a good OC for a stock HSF on a 9700. My first card would do 380/335 but then it died (call it ritualistic suicide) and the one I have now only does 355/340 even with water! I had to do a voltage mod just to get the damn thing up to 400/340!

It does sound like you are getting near the end of your OC potential though. I suspect that if you did a light voltage mod on the chipset (to get maybe 10-15 more FSB) and then increase your CPU voltage up a bit more, you could reach your 18K goal.

You might also have to bump your memory timmings up a hair......you are starting to push the boundries of your RAM at those timmings. I am using Corsair PC3500 chips and they are set to CAS 2-2-2-3 but only running at 212FSB; at 215FSB they start to produce errors with those timmings.

The more that I think about it, it does sound like your RAM could be holding you back from higher FSB speeds. Try just focusing on higher multipliers with slight voltage increases.

Good luck and let us know.

[phill9700]

where would i find the vdd/vchipset voltage to in the bios? i havent seen anything like it whilst i have looking in there (tweaking it anyway), its an epox 8rda+ board, i have only abit boards before, this is my first other board!! i must admit, some of the options i did see in the abit board arent here in the epox.. it must have been a sign..
well im just doing a memtest-86 (v3.0) and at the moment its running at 11 x 206FSB (2276mhz @ 1.750v) at Cas 2 2-2-5 memory settings and its done 85% at the moment, at the moment, no errors across the board i think its only doing the basic testing.. i dont really have the need to wait 3 hours or so.. i aint that worried about it!! its new memory, it should work... i hope :shrug:

i have tried the following tests and as far as i can see, i think im just hitting a wall..

11 x 205 booted and ran 3dmark 2001se fine
11.5 x 205 booted but exited 3dmark 2001se

i have also tried lowering the fsb setting and highering the multiplier ie 190 x 12.5 or something like that, again fail. i have upped the vcore to 1.85v and still no joy, even with the memory voltage up to 2.9v no joys...
at the moment its running fine at 206x11, but anything higher and its just crashing out with blue screens..

i was considering to buy a abit nf7-s and putting what i have in/on that.. would be have much of a difference? i was also going to buy another xp1700 cpu.. see if that overclocked better or what have you.. what you think?
p.s its just completed the test.. pass 1.. i assume it means its pased one run of the test??? i have never used it before!!
thanks for the help!

[Blackeagle]

I'm no expert but,

He's got a pretty strong O/C already, on a Epox 8RDA+. Yet.......

1) standard heat sink on NB

2) the NB heat sink is cool to the touch after 6 hours running

3) I'd expect to get toasted fingers on that NB after 6 hours running if it were making good strong contact.

Suggests to me that he's got poor contact between that "standard" heatsink and the NB. On that MB that's about normal.

I'd suggest a copper Iceburg active chipset cooler on the NB and some AS3 or Nanotherm silver XTP. I think your northbridge cooling could be the problem.

Won't cost much to find out.

edit:

If you're brave you could also lap that NB flatter, @ your risk of course.

[phill9700]

well i will always have a look into cooling it better, but every now and again, i get a better score, like this morning i managed to get close to 17800 with my cpu set yo 11 x 208fsb.. but afterwards it wont sodding run!! everything else is set to how it was.. im not sure i understand that one...

what do you mean by 'lap that NB flatter'?????

[airspirit]

Okay, there is some slightly bad advice floating around here. Yes, put a Iceberq on your NB. That is good. However:

If you can't run at higher FSB speeds, try dropping your FSB and using a higher multiplier. Start with 12x166 and start bumping the FSB again. If indeed your wall is your RAM, you'll get much more speed. If the wall is your processor, however, then no amount of northbridge or other mods will help you. A 2276 Mhz clock isn't that spectacular with these chips ... are you sure you're cooling it adequately? What is the stepping and date code?

[phill9700]

i have tried running at lower fsbs with higher multipliers and that has the same effect as running high fsb's and lower multipliers.
its a pain, but the speeds are good and im not complaining.. its just a little shame it not getting to my target.. but maybe a nf7-s will do the trick as i will be buying one of those soon, as my girl friends son and herself will be getting nforce 2 boards, i have an xp2200 and that dont seem to want to work in either of the kg7 or the kr7a boards even tho the bios have both been upgraded..
not to worry

[Blackeagle]

Many nforce2 NB are dished in the center. Lapping has been done by a few to correct this. If you do try lapping it I'd say stop the instant you see copper starting to show. Better safe than sorry. Only the most extreme go for that sort of thing. I've thought about it but have yet to do it myself. Was meant more as a joke than serious, should have marked it plainly as such, that's why it was added as a PS with a big smilie though.

The copper Iceburg on the NB however is no joke. Better cooling on the NB has helped many to higher O/Cing. And the fact yours is nice and cool after running for hours suggests to me it's making poor contact. The Epox boards are well know for this, they have about the hottest running of NB chips due to the poorly designed passive heat sink.

[phill9700]

well i was just only asking, but the north bridge heat sink i have been warned about before, i have HAD it working at 208 fsb with an 11 multiplier, but that was about it.. and that only happened once, reailbly as well.. stupid pc..
how much is the different cooler for the north bridge? where could i get it from in england easly?
thank you for the advice!!

[jtroutma]

It does sound like your RAM is holding you back from higher FSB settings. If you really want to go higher, you will probably have to put your RAM voltage to the max and raise your RAM timmings a bit. However I am not convinced that higher FSB settings will yield better gains in speed as opposed to slightly lower FSB settings and higher multipliers.

Definately remove that NB aluminum block and put an active HSF on it. I use a Blorb and others swear by Iceberq. Both will do the trick.

Only thing left after that is higher Vcore settings..... but with a HSF solution, you will be getting very close to hazardous core temps.


If you MUST get your 18K......invest in a FX 5900... (only if you absolutely must)

[phill9700]

thats one thing that i would never do,
and thats buy another Nvidia/Geforce card.. I prefer the ATI's due to speed, looks and image quality..
i have tried putting the voltage at full on the motherboards bios, which is 2.9v which still dont give me anything higher really.. im not sure what it is, but at the moment, im not so bothered.. im only 250 points off the target and im just enjoying the use of the machine at the moment, its fed up with all the benchmarks

with my vcore up to 1.875v (only for short periods of time mind you!!) i wasnt over 50c.. i think that the most i saw was 48c or 49c./. nothing that i would get overally concerned at.. or should i be?
i have been considering a water cooling solution, any sugguestions for very good cooling, but not a lot of noise? under say, i dunno £150 to £200? any info or recommendations will be well appreatied

[MadDogMe]

Try running the RAM at Cas2 3, 3, 7 and see how high you can raise the FSB alone. Lower the multiplyer a notch or two so it is'nt the CPU crashing/causing problems. If you can get up to 220+FSB at lower timings it'll prolly(usualy does) give you a better score than lower FSB and tight timings...

NB heat can fugger up tight memory timings and high FSB's. Like Blackee' says, if it feels cool, it's not moving the heat throught it...

A revision 2.0 NF7S will walk all over that Epox mobo of yours , that and maybe slapping a TEC on the CPU and raising it to 2500MHZ will get you there...

PS; Be aware that some NF7's have issues with Corsair TwinX modules. Normal Corsair RAM is OK, it's the 'matched pairs' SPD that is to blame somehow

[phill9700]

well its something that i might do later on possibly, i have been hearing that the ram does need time to bed in, so possibly this could be the problem..
i think i will probably get the nf7-s rev 2 board soon, if i have a 'good' couple weeks pay i will be able to sort out what i want, although, are the xp1700's in short supply? i have been hearing these things.. oh and also, whats the best 'date' cpu to go for?
please dont take me for being really stupid, but whats tec? how would i know about whether or not the ram was good or bad?

what do you think about this water cooling idea?

[MadDogMe]

A TEC is a 'peltier' heat pump. Do a search...

H2o cooling is the way to go for serious overclocking, or even a Vapochill/Promethea phase change unit if you have loads of money...

I'd order your kit from the US, D Tek specificaly. They'll have the White Water for sale soon, coupled with one of their heatercores and shroud/shrouds and an Ehiem1250 or Iwaki MD15rZt (Z is high head/pressure model) you'll have the best straight H2o rig you can buy...

Why are you so hung up on 18000 3DMarks anyway?. 3DMark is bollox anyway, it's just a benchmark that benchmarks itself. No realword relevance realy :shrug: . I hate seeing people caught up in the 3DMark ratrace, it's beyond pointless ...

[phill9700]

im not hung up on it by any rate, its just a score that i would have liked to have hit with all the hardware i have thats all..

what you do call serious overclocking power? with the water cooling unit, im just looking for it to be less noisy and to cool as good or even better than what i have installed now.. the only problem i have with the water cooling side of things is that i wouldnt have a first clue on how to install it or anything... i would need help..

are the parts that you have mentioned are they easly searched for in other places, like toms hardware, anantec, hexus or pcstats or something like that??? i would like some reviews to see what i would be buying first!

[bigben2k]

You could try dropping CAS to 3, for a higher FSB, but you'll have to monitor the RAM thriughput, to compare.

[phill9700]

thanks but tried that and it failed...