Copper tubing -- all opinions wanted

artemis0007 · 12-25-2001, 02:40 PM

Hi all!
Anybody have thoughts about using copper pipes/tubing for your watercoold machine? It's just a thought I was kicking around. Thanks!

f155mph · 12-26-2001, 03:29 AM

Yeah I think it would be a pain in the butt. You would have to measure everything exactly right for all the stuff to fit together. If you decide to change the case, you would probably have to redo the whole thing since the stuff would be in a different spot. Lastly it the pipes with get in the way when you are working on the computer. That my two cents!

redleader · 12-30-2001, 11:21 AM

Copper is nice because you can solder it and then its done-nothing is going to make it leak.

I would consider it for a res or some fancy tap/fill system, but not the whole thing. Not wonly would it be amazingly hard to measure and fit around a case, but it would be heavy and potientially loosen parts becuase its not flexible. I don't used reinforced tubing becuase its so rigid, copper would be 10 times worse.

grep · 12-30-2001, 11:35 PM

I think its a good idea, it can be routed very well, yes measuring and bending might take several attempts. The ability to get the pipes routed out of the way of things makes it worth the effort. I would not entirely eliminate hoses, I would have a 2 or 3" section of hose to help eliminate vibration and allow for minor final adjustments in positioning. One more thing, on a normal brass or nylon fitting you lose 1/2 the id cross-sectional area because of the thickness required to support the threads, by soldering in the copper tubing you gain a lot of flow area. If you decide to attempt it please take pictures and post them

Grep

Brad · 12-31-2001, 03:34 PM

I really wouldn't bother, you aren't going to get better temps which is what watercooling is all about.

In the time it takes to do it all, you could probably build a new waterblock

beav · 12-31-2001, 03:43 PM

I dunno, it would look rather neat and organized, no loopy tubes all over the place

Brad · 12-31-2001, 04:04 PM

which is why you use zip ties to hold them back

beav · 12-31-2001, 04:13 PM

You know what, brad, you're not alwasy right...

Brad · 12-31-2001, 04:25 PM

I know, but I am saying that the tidyness thing isn't a reason to switch to copper.

it is a much more permanent solution, which can be good and bad, depending on your operating conditions

grep · 01-01-2002, 02:45 AM

personally I think tidyness is an excellent reason, but if its not enough for you, what about this. Ever notice how thick the hoses are, ever notice how thick the brass or plastic fittings are, ever notice how thin copper tubing is. would 20 to 25% more water flow be a good reason to use soldered copper instead of hoses?

Gre[

Brad · 01-01-2002, 04:35 PM

if you are measuring inside diameter anyway, it doesn't matter. The only place it might be important in is sharp bends, where copper would excel (but be much much harder to get to the right length)

jaydee · 01-02-2002, 12:59 PM

Copper tubing is easy!!! All you need is some strait pipe and get what ever corners you need at the hardware store and solder them on. No reason to bend it yourself, although it isn't that hard with the right bender. All the corners ect.. are already made up at the hardware store. Copper tubing is fairly cheap. I could do my SX830 for about $10. (I priced it BTW)

I thought about doing this very thing for quit sometime, but I havn't got around to it. If you buff up the copper tubing all nice and shiny it would look pretty good through a window.

mashie · 01-02-2002, 03:55 PM

Or you can take the best from both worlds, silicone tubing and copper bends.

Brad · 01-02-2002, 06:15 PM

yes mashie, we know your setup is damned cool. what is the pump in that anyway?

Butcher · 01-02-2002, 06:19 PM

where'd you get that duct from? it's damn cool

Brad · 01-02-2002, 06:42 PM

it looks like a normal 4" ac duct to me, like what many buildings have

jaydee · 01-02-2002, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
it looks like a normal 4" ac duct to me, like what many buildings have

Yeah i think it is, I though it might be a chimney elbow but it disn't have the right ends on it.

Brad · 01-02-2002, 06:54 PM

hehe, infact I wandered aroudn the garage and found one exactly like that, one end was smooth, the other was corrugated

mashie · 01-02-2002, 07:17 PM

Yes it is a 4" ventilation elbow.

The pump is not installed yet, probably tomorrow.

Brad · 01-02-2002, 07:28 PM

isn't 4" a bit smaller than the 120mm though, have you got a small reduction thing there, or does some air just go out of the duct?

mashie · 01-02-2002, 07:31 PM

Oops, my bad, it's 5" (127mm).

Brad · 01-02-2002, 08:49 PM

hehe

some fans are actually made in 127mm size, I am fairly sure Delta and Nidec do some

grep · 01-02-2002, 09:37 PM

I was surprised to find that a 1/2" threaded hose barb using 1/2-14 npt threads requires a 27/32 drill bit and after its tapped its max diameter is .84375, if you go up 1/32 in drill size you use a 7/8ths drill bit and thats exactly the size of 3/4" copper tubing.
I think almost any block should be able to take a 1/32 increase in hole size especially since it doesn't need to be tapped.

I did a little research and a 1/2" threaded hose barb with a 1/2-14 NPT x 1/2 hose would have an od of .84375 and an id of .611 and a 3/4 schedule M copper tube would have an od of .875 and an id of .811. Thats a hell of an increase.

Grep

Butcher · 01-02-2002, 10:03 PM

Id of 0.611 onto 1/2" ID hose? seems rather unlikely...

jaydee · 01-02-2002, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grep

I think almost any block should be able to take a 1/32 increase in hole size especially since it doesn't need to be tapped.

Grep

Any block but mine. I am already down to 1/16" around the holes. another 1/32 would make the walls to thin.

12-25-2001, 02:40 PM	#1
artemis0007 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Davis, CA USA Posts: 113	Copper tubing -- all opinions wanted Hi all! Anybody have thoughts about using copper pipes/tubing for your watercoold machine? It's just a thought I was kicking around. Thanks! __________________ Pentium 4 3.06 GHz watercooled by Koolance EXOS Gigabyte 8INXP mobo 512MB Corsair PC3200 DDR RAM Fortron 400W PSU Watercooled Radeon 9700 Pro Quiet as a mouse! Koolance Temps: 26C/32C BIOS Temps: 36C/44C ========================== Dual Athlon MP 2000+ watercooled Black Ice Extreme, Eheim 1250 pump, 2 DTek TC-4 blocks, and homemade res Gigabyte GA-7DPWDX mobo 512 MB Registered Mushkin DDR 2100 RAM RAID 0: 2 IBM 60 GXP 60GB ea RAID 5: 3 Western Digital Caviar 60GB ea MSI GeForce4 4400 Sound Blaster Audigy MP3+ Yamaha CDRW-F1 Adaptec ATA RAID 2100 card LOADS OF FANS!!!!

12-30-2001, 11:35 PM	#4
grep Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	I think its a good idea, it can be routed very well, yes measuring and bending might take several attempts. The ability to get the pipes routed out of the way of things makes it worth the effort. I would not entirely eliminate hoses, I would have a 2 or 3" section of hose to help eliminate vibration and allow for minor final adjustments in positioning. One more thing, on a normal brass or nylon fitting you lose 1/2 the id cross-sectional area because of the thickness required to support the threads, by soldering in the copper tubing you gain a lot of flow area. If you decide to attempt it please take pictures and post them Grep __________________ every thing is optional

12-31-2001, 03:43 PM	#6
beav Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Danville Posts: 96	I dunno, it would look rather neat and organized, no loopy tubes all over the place __________________ What a chump.

12-31-2001, 04:13 PM	#8
beav Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Danville Posts: 96	You know what, brad, you're not alwasy right... __________________ What a chump.

01-01-2002, 02:45 AM	#10
grep Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	personally I think tidyness is an excellent reason, but if its not enough for you, what about this. Ever notice how thick the hoses are, ever notice how thick the brass or plastic fittings are, ever notice how thin copper tubing is. would 20 to 25% more water flow be a good reason to use soldered copper instead of hoses? Gre[ __________________ every thing is optional

12-26-2001, 03:29 AM	#2
f155mph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LALA Land Posts: 27	Yeah I think it would be a pain in the butt. You would have to measure everything exactly right for all the stuff to fit together. If you decide to change the case, you would probably have to redo the whole thing since the stuff would be in a different spot. Lastly it the pipes with get in the way when you are working on the computer. That my two cents!

12-30-2001, 11:21 AM	#3
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Copper is nice because you can solder it and then its done-nothing is going to make it leak. I would consider it for a res or some fancy tap/fill system, but not the whole thing. Not wonly would it be amazingly hard to measure and fit around a case, but it would be heavy and potientially loosen parts becuase its not flexible. I don't used reinforced tubing becuase its so rigid, copper would be 10 times worse.

12-31-2001, 03:34 PM	#5
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I really wouldn't bother, you aren't going to get better temps which is what watercooling is all about. In the time it takes to do it all, you could probably build a new waterblock

12-31-2001, 04:04 PM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	which is why you use zip ties to hold them back

12-31-2001, 04:25 PM	#9
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I know, but I am saying that the tidyness thing isn't a reason to switch to copper. it is a much more permanent solution, which can be good and bad, depending on your operating conditions

01-01-2002, 04:35 PM	#11
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	if you are measuring inside diameter anyway, it doesn't matter. The only place it might be important in is sharp bends, where copper would excel (but be much much harder to get to the right length)

01-02-2002, 12:59 PM	#12
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Copper tubing is easy!!! All you need is some strait pipe and get what ever corners you need at the hardware store and solder them on. No reason to bend it yourself, although it isn't that hard with the right bender. All the corners ect.. are already made up at the hardware store. Copper tubing is fairly cheap. I could do my SX830 for about $10. (I priced it BTW) I thought about doing this very thing for quit sometime, but I havn't got around to it. If you buff up the copper tubing all nice and shiny it would look pretty good through a window.

01-02-2002, 03:55 PM	#13
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	Or you can take the best from both worlds, silicone tubing and copper bends. __________________ mashie

01-02-2002, 06:15 PM	#14
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yes mashie, we know your setup is damned cool. what is the pump in that anyway?

01-02-2002, 06:19 PM	#15
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	where'd you get that duct from? it's damn cool __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

01-02-2002, 06:42 PM	#16
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	it looks like a normal 4" ac duct to me, like what many buildings have

01-02-2002, 06:54 PM	#18
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	hehe, infact I wandered aroudn the garage and found one exactly like that, one end was smooth, the other was corrugated

01-02-2002, 07:17 PM	#19
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	Yes it is a 4" ventilation elbow. The pump is not installed yet, probably tomorrow. __________________ mashie

01-02-2002, 07:28 PM	#20
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	isn't 4" a bit smaller than the 120mm though, have you got a small reduction thing there, or does some air just go out of the duct?

01-02-2002, 07:31 PM	#21
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	Oops, my bad, it's 5" (127mm). __________________ mashie

01-02-2002, 08:49 PM	#22
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	hehe some fans are actually made in 127mm size, I am fairly sure Delta and Nidec do some

01-02-2002, 09:37 PM	#23
grep Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	I was surprised to find that a 1/2" threaded hose barb using 1/2-14 npt threads requires a 27/32 drill bit and after its tapped its max diameter is .84375, if you go up 1/32 in drill size you use a 7/8ths drill bit and thats exactly the size of 3/4" copper tubing. I think almost any block should be able to take a 1/32 increase in hole size especially since it doesn't need to be tapped. I did a little research and a 1/2" threaded hose barb with a 1/2-14 NPT x 1/2 hose would have an od of .84375 and an id of .611 and a 3/4 schedule M copper tube would have an od of .875 and an id of .811. Thats a hell of an increase. Grep __________________ every thing is optional

01-02-2002, 10:03 PM	#24
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	Id of 0.611 onto 1/2" ID hose? seems rather unlikely... __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

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