New rad design shown @ Xtreme

Blackeagle · 07-09-2003, 08:27 PM

I'd be interested in opinions on this mans work.

Thread,

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...118#post180118

At the least I'll say I'm impressed with his metal working and finishing skills.

I do have some reservations on performance claims. Prices seem higher than many would pay to me. Hope you guys can give a look and opinion.

Thanks

bigben2k · 07-09-2003, 08:44 PM

Well, first off, if anyone ever thought that a BIX was expensive, at >$50, they're in for a sticker shock: $250.00 !!!

I think it's mostly eye candy: the chrome job is very nice.

I would have opted for a blower, which would have extracted the most amount of performance. I'm still trying to figure out how to mount mine

, but with my 6 by 8" heatercore (now mounted), I have no doubt that I'll get top performance out of it.

The blower might have resulted in a unit that's about the same size. Not convinced that it would fit inside any case, but maybe that wasn't the objective.

Blackeagle · 07-09-2003, 09:07 PM

Hi Ben,

Yeah, sticker shock to say the least! ! Perhaps he misunderstood the reason for the site's name?

What did you think of his performance claims (temps) @ such high O/C's??

He sure seems to have a number of very high performing systems.

I have no real sure reason for feeling the way I do, but the combination of performance claims, while lacking some important info, along with multiple very Xtreme performing O/Ced systems leaves me wondering.

Be interested in his responses. If all is on the up & up he's got a high performer, with a equally high price.

#Rotor · 07-09-2003, 09:13 PM

I dono, people seem to be very happy to fork it out for those bix rad's.... why not fork it out for something that actually will perform as good as it looks.

when looking at radiators, compactness is absolutely the last thing you want as a feature....

the actual core of his design is a high efficiency automotive radiator design, been around for almost as long as the wheel, which I guess makes it a new invention for computers...

right? his claims to fame, Ill knock his radiater a coupla good dings with my shadetree technology composite shroud, cheapy heater-core, single prop 120.

all jokes aside, if I where to have a silver spoon in me mouth, that would be the rad I would have gotten.

There is, however, in the land of Motorcycles, a couple of models I know of, that would slay anything known to the watercooling industry today.

bigben2k · 07-09-2003, 09:14 PM

Well, he essentially claims a 1 deg C diff, between air and water, with an acknowledgement that his probes are +/- 1 deg C accurate.

So in the worst case, the delta T is 2 degrees C, which is reasonable. The thing is, those fans are probably screaming in order to get that delta T, and that's why I'd prefer a blower.

His fan configuration is good, as long as the two push-pulls sets are seperated, which you can't really see.

bigben2k · 07-09-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
...the actual core of his design is a high efficiency automotive radiator design, been around for almost as long as the wheel, which I guess makes it a new invention for computers... right? his claims to fame, Ill knock his radiater a coupla good dings with my shadetree technology composite shroud, cheapy heater-core, single prop 120.

I dunno.

He claims to have 13 parallel tubes in a 3 pass configuration, which we've seen doesn't perform as well as a single pass. On the other hand, it's probably ideal for a high flow configuration.:shrug:

Blackeagle · 07-09-2003, 09:36 PM

I'm not sure from the way he worded things if he meant 3 pass or that the tubes are just in three rows.

That's why I asked that question. Would make more sense to me to have 1 or 2 passes instead of three.

#Rotor · 07-09-2003, 09:38 PM

it looks like 3 layer single pass. The guy boasts that his invention has very low flow resistance to the liquid..... a plus if your blocks are less restrictive than your radiator, I guess..... I don't have that problem though

Problem is, he is but merely running 3 single layer radiators, on top of one another, hooked up in parallel. the first layer does all the work, and the other two beneath it is all nice and toasty in the hot air from the first. A very good compromise, to gain compactness, If you are cooling a 700Kw+ 20b Rotary engine that has on exhaust manifold temperature of approximately 956ºC, give or take....

an unmodded heater core is a 2 pass single layer, all be it a 2" thick layer. if one modifies the core's tanks, to have an inlet on either side, it would be even better.

on closer examination of what he is saying.... hmmm, I'm starting to lose the awe I acquired from just looking at his creation.

Blackeagle · 07-09-2003, 09:56 PM

Rotor,

I tried searching on line some time ago for cycle rads, no luck. Can you offer any direction for them?

It seemed to me they would be good and about the right size. Just no luck finding any info on the net.

Thanks for any help you can give.

BE

#Rotor · 07-09-2003, 10:08 PM

TZR250-3MA
as in

I know, for a fact, from owning that particular beautiful beast, that is has a perfectly shaped ultra thin single-pass radiator in it, Aluminum though, But I am not afraid.

I went looken for it too, a while back, I guess the motorcycle community is still very much not on the information highways of today... your best shot would be your local cycle dealers.

you will however get some severe sticker-shock-whip-lash

these radiators are by no stretch cheap.

Blackeagle · 07-09-2003, 10:12 PM

Thanks Rotor, at least I know to look local and forget online.

That sticker shock, worse than what that guy is gonna charge for his wonder rads?

#Rotor · 07-09-2003, 10:20 PM

I don't think that much though ( I could be very wrong on this, mind you, not been there in a long time ) .... BUT, you are going to get just the rad, nothing more...

moto-X motorcycles, such as the YZ125 KX125 and CR125 models from Yamaha Kawasaki and Honda, also have some very nice radiators in them, maybe a bit more suited for fitting in a smallish uncustomed computer case.

07-09-2003, 08:27 PM	#1
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	New rad design shown @ Xtreme I'd be interested in opinions on this mans work. Thread, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...118#post180118 At the least I'll say I'm impressed with his metal working and finishing skills. I do have some reservations on performance claims. Prices seem higher than many would pay to me. Hope you guys can give a look and opinion. Thanks Last edited by Blackeagle; 07-09-2003 at 08:34 PM.

07-09-2003, 08:44 PM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Well, first off, if anyone ever thought that a BIX was expensive, at >$50, they're in for a sticker shock: $250.00 !!! I think it's mostly eye candy: the chrome job is very nice. I would have opted for a blower, which would have extracted the most amount of performance. I'm still trying to figure out how to mount mine , but with my 6 by 8" heatercore (now mounted), I have no doubt that I'll get top performance out of it. The blower might have resulted in a unit that's about the same size. Not convinced that it would fit inside any case, but maybe that wasn't the objective. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-09-2003, 09:13 PM	#4
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I dono, people seem to be very happy to fork it out for those bix rad's.... why not fork it out for something that actually will perform as good as it looks. when looking at radiators, compactness is absolutely the last thing you want as a feature.... the actual core of his design is a high efficiency automotive radiator design, been around for almost as long as the wheel, which I guess makes it a new invention for computers... right? his claims to fame, Ill knock his radiater a coupla good dings with my shadetree technology composite shroud, cheapy heater-core, single prop 120. all jokes aside, if I where to have a silver spoon in me mouth, that would be the rad I would have gotten. There is, however, in the land of Motorcycles, a couple of models I know of, that would slay anything known to the watercooling industry today. __________________ There is no Spoon....

07-09-2003, 09:14 PM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Well, he essentially claims a 1 deg C diff, between air and water, with an acknowledgement that his probes are +/- 1 deg C accurate. So in the worst case, the delta T is 2 degrees C, which is reasonable. The thing is, those fans are probably screaming in order to get that delta T, and that's why I'd prefer a blower. His fan configuration is good, as long as the two push-pulls sets are seperated, which you can't really see. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-09-2003, 09:38 PM	#8
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	it looks like 3 layer single pass. The guy boasts that his invention has very low flow resistance to the liquid..... a plus if your blocks are less restrictive than your radiator, I guess..... I don't have that problem though Problem is, he is but merely running 3 single layer radiators, on top of one another, hooked up in parallel. the first layer does all the work, and the other two beneath it is all nice and toasty in the hot air from the first. A very good compromise, to gain compactness, If you are cooling a 700Kw+ 20b Rotary engine that has on exhaust manifold temperature of approximately 956ºC, give or take.... an unmodded heater core is a 2 pass single layer, all be it a 2" thick layer. if one modifies the core's tanks, to have an inlet on either side, it would be even better. on closer examination of what he is saying.... hmmm, I'm starting to lose the awe I acquired from just looking at his creation. __________________ There is no Spoon....

07-09-2003, 09:07 PM	#3
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Hi Ben, Yeah, sticker shock to say the least! ! Perhaps he misunderstood the reason for the site's name? What did you think of his performance claims (temps) @ such high O/C's?? He sure seems to have a number of very high performing systems. I have no real sure reason for feeling the way I do, but the combination of performance claims, while lacking some important info, along with multiple very Xtreme performing O/Ced systems leaves me wondering. Be interested in his responses. If all is on the up & up he's got a high performer, with a equally high price.

07-09-2003, 09:36 PM	#7
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	I'm not sure from the way he worded things if he meant 3 pass or that the tubes are just in three rows. That's why I asked that question. Would make more sense to me to have 1 or 2 passes instead of three.

07-09-2003, 09:56 PM	#9
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Rotor, I tried searching on line some time ago for cycle rads, no luck. Can you offer any direction for them? It seemed to me they would be good and about the right size. Just no luck finding any info on the net. Thanks for any help you can give. BE

07-09-2003, 10:08 PM	#10
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	TZR250-3MA as in I know, for a fact, from owning that particular beautiful beast, that is has a perfectly shaped ultra thin single-pass radiator in it, Aluminum though, But I am not afraid. I went looken for it too, a while back, I guess the motorcycle community is still very much not on the information highways of today... your best shot would be your local cycle dealers. you will however get some severe sticker-shock-whip-lash these radiators are by no stretch cheap. __________________ There is no Spoon....

07-09-2003, 10:12 PM	#11
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Thanks Rotor, at least I know to look local and forget online. That sticker shock, worse than what that guy is gonna charge for his wonder rads?

07-09-2003, 10:20 PM	#12
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I don't think that much though ( I could be very wrong on this, mind you, not been there in a long time ) .... BUT, you are going to get just the rad, nothing more... moto-X motorcycles, such as the YZ125 KX125 and CR125 models from Yamaha Kawasaki and Honda, also have some very nice radiators in them, maybe a bit more suited for fitting in a smallish uncustomed computer case. __________________ There is no Spoon....

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