Whacked Out Idea That /JUST/ Might Work ....

earlmred · 11-27-2000, 05:07 PM

Hmm ... just had this idea ... and I think it could actually work!! Okay, here it goes ... why not buy a small chest freezer that is big enough for your mobo and whatever pci/isa cards you need in there, fill the freezer with non-conductive fluid, put your mobo in there (you'd have to have longer cables for stuff like, cd-rom, hard drives, stuff like that, and close up the freezer. Put the freezer to 0C (if it'll get that cold), and let it run a few days to get down to the right temps ... then power up the system and start o/cing (something with SoftMenu ]I[ or similar would be good). Would this work, or am I just whacked out of my mind?

------------------
earlmred
AIM:earlmred
EMAIL:boydj@softhome.net
IRC:earlmred

Kevin · 11-27-2000, 08:13 PM

Hmmm. Maybe, but it would be more effective to use a normal watercooler and have the water flow through a freezer.

Cryonosis · 11-28-2000, 12:42 AM

it would work very well, I would say that you really only have to move the liquid over areas that get hot (basically think of the liquid like air, use a fan in the same place for both), witht he liquid having better heat absorbtion than air, plus being cooled, your mobo and cards should be more stable.

And actually you just described a cheaper method of cooling that super-computers use. It's refered to as passive submersion. just remember keep the liquid cool via some means, but your freezer idea should work beautifully.

If you ever do it, take pictures and show them to us all. Good luck,
Cryo

Freakyfrank · 11-30-2000, 09:01 AM

That 'nonconductive' fluid of yours costs about US$500 for a gallon.... and this guy at octools.com ( http://www.octools.com/articles/subm...ubmersion.html ) needed two gallons to fully submerge his mobo! btw I THINK HE'S THE
[H]ARDEST OVERCLOCKER AROUND... (plz proove me wrong.. lol)

you can also use some mineral oil or so...
but i think you'll ruin your comp with it

earlmred · 12-01-2000, 08:51 AM

Actually, I was considering maybe distilled water, since it's non-conductive, and if it's in a sealed environment, then it should remain that way.

Joe · 12-01-2000, 09:23 AM

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.... Distilled water IS conductive!! VERY conductive in some cases! and will kill computer parts damn near instantly.

The ONLY water NOT conductive is De-Ionized ( or "UltraPure" as it is called in the industry) Which is toxic if ingested, and will ionize if its around some materials so after time it will become conducive depending what particles are picked up into the coolant.

Flourinert is around 500$ through a wholesaler, if you go to 3M its 1000$ per gallon ( per a price sheet I was just sent from my Dad at a conf. in Chicago). Its awesome stuff, but its a major green house gas when its evaporated, so watch for the government to start to regulate it like R-12 Freon soon.

Mineral oil is ok, but I will never ever use it in a cooling system ot submerge my system in it. Its a cheap, and messy way of cooling. Its heat transfer properties are worse then water, and it leaves yer gear all slicked with residue. Also if it leaks it will stain carpet and such.(Some carpets).

Flourinert is the only way to do a submerged system right.

OCTools is cool, but hardly practical

those silly Aussy's have way too much time on their hands I think

hehehehehe But yes his submerged system with the Flourinert ruled.

------------------
C-ya
Joe - Owner/Editor
www.ProCooling.com
Where the Completely Addicted Come to Cool Off

Somebody set up us the bomb.

bdunosk · 05-26-2001, 07:28 AM

Does anyone remember from a few years ago, the guy that dropped his mobo/CPU/etc into a container full of mineral oil (walmart sold it, I think?). Then he put cooling coils from an AC or something into the oil, some pump to circulate the oil around... worked fairly well, of course your components are basically stuck in there from that point on.

imagex · 05-26-2001, 01:01 PM

only thing is that the fridge is not ment to cool that amount of heat it wolud be over come by the heat in a short time.but it should work for short runs -on 30 min-off-1 day-i'm sticking with evap cooling the only cooling that realy cools not just move heat.

LKraven · 05-27-2001, 02:14 AM

DI water is not toxic, per se. It's just highly aggressive and will happily collect ions from your body as it reaches a state of ionized equilibrium. It won't kill you unless you drink enough for it to suck all the minerals from your body, but it probably will make you sick if you drink a significant amount. It's not toxic the way that ethylene glycol is toxic.

Anyway, any water is conductive once it's loaded with ions. And that means DI, distilled, RO water, you name it. Expose it to your system and it will pick up copper ions off your water block, copper off traces, tin off the solder, aluminum off your heatsinks, oils from your hand, dust from the air, anything from anywhere. It'll kill your system as fast as you can sneeze.

As for the freezer idea, it will not work. Not unless you only like using your computer for 15 minutes only, per day.

The purpose of a freezer is to evacuate heat. A freezer is not used to actively dissipate an active heat source. To understand what I mean, you must consider your computer and it's components as a heater. Let's say (conservatively) that your computer is a 50w heater. If you stick a 50w heater in a freezer and turn it on, you will melt everything in there and eventually, the freezer will be WARMER inside than ambient (thanks to the insulation). At the same time, the freezer will be running 24-7 because the thermostat says that it's too hot, and in a few weeks, the freezer will die from overheating the compressor.

Basically, a freezer doesn't have enough juice to cool a computer, no way, no how. You'd have to look into an active chiller. And I don't mean a water reservoir hooked up to a peltier, it won't work. You'd need a 1/2 hp chiller... and those START at $500 and suck a ton of electrical juice.

Neil

jimsnyder · 05-28-2001, 03:57 PM

To back Nell up, Deionized water has only had the ions of metals and minerals pulled out, and is still bipolar and very conductive. What it does maen is that the resistance to a current is higher than tap water, and can be used to test the purity of the water. Really highly pure water (deionized or distilled) is very resistive to current and is measured in micro ohms of resistance.

jimsnyder · 05-28-2001, 03:58 PM

To back Nell up, Deionized water has only had the ions of metals and minerals pulled out, and is still bipolar and very conductive. What it does maen is that the resistance to a current is higher than tap water, and can be used to test the purity of the water. Really highly pure water (deionized or distilled) is very resistive to current and is measured in micro ohms of resistance.

Memphis · 05-28-2001, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe:

OCTools is cool, but hardly practical those silly Aussy's have way too much time on their hands I think hehehehehe But yes his submerged system with the Flourinert ruled.

Careful there Joe,

You have just referred to a New Zealander as an Aussie! Thats just like saying a Canadian is a Yank

.

You should have said:

'Those silly New Zealanders have way too much time on their hands I think'

Ditto on everything else you said!!!

Cheers

Memphis (an Aussie, not a New Zealander - and I don't have any time on my hands

)

11-27-2000, 05:07 PM	#1
earlmred Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Ashburn, VA 20147 Posts: 29	Whacked Out Idea That /JUST/ Might Work .... Hmm ... just had this idea ... and I think it could actually work!! Okay, here it goes ... why not buy a small chest freezer that is big enough for your mobo and whatever pci/isa cards you need in there, fill the freezer with non-conductive fluid, put your mobo in there (you'd have to have longer cables for stuff like, cd-rom, hard drives, stuff like that, and close up the freezer. Put the freezer to 0C (if it'll get that cold), and let it run a few days to get down to the right temps ... then power up the system and start o/cing (something with SoftMenu ]I[ or similar would be good). Would this work, or am I just whacked out of my mind? ------------------ earlmred AIM:earlmred EMAIL:boydj@softhome.net IRC:earlmred

05-26-2001, 01:01 PM	#8
imagex Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: south FL Posts: 220	only thing is that the fridge is not ment to cool that amount of heat it wolud be over come by the heat in a short time.but it should work for short runs -on 30 min-off-1 day-i'm sticking with evap cooling the only cooling that realy cools not just move heat. __________________ Overkill'n Overclock'n Hybrid Mobile Solutions

11-27-2000, 08:13 PM	#2
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	Hmmm. Maybe, but it would be more effective to use a normal watercooler and have the water flow through a freezer.

11-28-2000, 12:42 AM	#3
Cryonosis Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Idaho, and that's all your gonna get : ) Posts: 101	it would work very well, I would say that you really only have to move the liquid over areas that get hot (basically think of the liquid like air, use a fan in the same place for both), witht he liquid having better heat absorbtion than air, plus being cooled, your mobo and cards should be more stable. And actually you just described a cheaper method of cooling that super-computers use. It's refered to as passive submersion. just remember keep the liquid cool via some means, but your freezer idea should work beautifully. If you ever do it, take pictures and show them to us all. Good luck, Cryo

11-30-2000, 09:01 AM	#4
Freakyfrank Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Eindhoven, Holland Posts: 238	That 'nonconductive' fluid of yours costs about US$500 for a gallon.... and this guy at octools.com ( http://www.octools.com/articles/subm...ubmersion.html ) needed two gallons to fully submerge his mobo! btw I THINK HE'S THE [H]ARDEST OVERCLOCKER AROUND... (plz proove me wrong.. lol) you can also use some mineral oil or so... but i think you'll ruin your comp with it

12-01-2000, 08:51 AM	#5
earlmred Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Ashburn, VA 20147 Posts: 29	Actually, I was considering maybe distilled water, since it's non-conductive, and if it's in a sealed environment, then it should remain that way.

12-01-2000, 09:23 AM	#6
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.... Distilled water IS conductive!! VERY conductive in some cases! and will kill computer parts damn near instantly. The ONLY water NOT conductive is De-Ionized ( or "UltraPure" as it is called in the industry) Which is toxic if ingested, and will ionize if its around some materials so after time it will become conducive depending what particles are picked up into the coolant. Flourinert is around 500$ through a wholesaler, if you go to 3M its 1000$ per gallon ( per a price sheet I was just sent from my Dad at a conf. in Chicago). Its awesome stuff, but its a major green house gas when its evaporated, so watch for the government to start to regulate it like R-12 Freon soon. Mineral oil is ok, but I will never ever use it in a cooling system ot submerge my system in it. Its a cheap, and messy way of cooling. Its heat transfer properties are worse then water, and it leaves yer gear all slicked with residue. Also if it leaks it will stain carpet and such.(Some carpets). Flourinert is the only way to do a submerged system right. OCTools is cool, but hardly practical those silly Aussy's have way too much time on their hands I think hehehehehe But yes his submerged system with the Flourinert ruled. ------------------ C-ya Joe - Owner/Editor www.ProCooling.com Where the Completely Addicted Come to Cool Off Somebody set up us the bomb.

05-26-2001, 07:28 AM	#7
bdunosk Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2001 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 93	Does anyone remember from a few years ago, the guy that dropped his mobo/CPU/etc into a container full of mineral oil (walmart sold it, I think?). Then he put cooling coils from an AC or something into the oil, some pump to circulate the oil around... worked fairly well, of course your components are basically stuck in there from that point on.

05-27-2001, 02:14 AM	#9
LKraven Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 12	DI water is not toxic, per se. It's just highly aggressive and will happily collect ions from your body as it reaches a state of ionized equilibrium. It won't kill you unless you drink enough for it to suck all the minerals from your body, but it probably will make you sick if you drink a significant amount. It's not toxic the way that ethylene glycol is toxic. Anyway, any water is conductive once it's loaded with ions. And that means DI, distilled, RO water, you name it. Expose it to your system and it will pick up copper ions off your water block, copper off traces, tin off the solder, aluminum off your heatsinks, oils from your hand, dust from the air, anything from anywhere. It'll kill your system as fast as you can sneeze. As for the freezer idea, it will not work. Not unless you only like using your computer for 15 minutes only, per day. The purpose of a freezer is to evacuate heat. A freezer is not used to actively dissipate an active heat source. To understand what I mean, you must consider your computer and it's components as a heater. Let's say (conservatively) that your computer is a 50w heater. If you stick a 50w heater in a freezer and turn it on, you will melt everything in there and eventually, the freezer will be WARMER inside than ambient (thanks to the insulation). At the same time, the freezer will be running 24-7 because the thermostat says that it's too hot, and in a few weeks, the freezer will die from overheating the compressor. Basically, a freezer doesn't have enough juice to cool a computer, no way, no how. You'd have to look into an active chiller. And I don't mean a water reservoir hooked up to a peltier, it won't work. You'd need a 1/2 hp chiller... and those START at $500 and suck a ton of electrical juice. Neil

05-28-2001, 03:57 PM	#10
jimsnyder Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 23	To back Nell up, Deionized water has only had the ions of metals and minerals pulled out, and is still bipolar and very conductive. What it does maen is that the resistance to a current is higher than tap water, and can be used to test the purity of the water. Really highly pure water (deionized or distilled) is very resistive to current and is measured in micro ohms of resistance.

05-28-2001, 03:58 PM	#11
jimsnyder Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 23	To back Nell up, Deionized water has only had the ions of metals and minerals pulled out, and is still bipolar and very conductive. What it does maen is that the resistance to a current is higher than tap water, and can be used to test the purity of the water. Really highly pure water (deionized or distilled) is very resistive to current and is measured in micro ohms of resistance.

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