Screw Pump: Theory

satanicoo · 09-03-2003, 12:35 PM

Hi all.
I have seen this in a book of an old matematical guy who developed a giant screw, so someone could rotate it for water could come up.

What if we adapted this to a pump, i mean, make a pump like this?
Teorically, it could reach quite some pressure, and doesnt have the problems of piston pumps (MTBF too low i think, or cant run constantly).

Here's a concept:

satanicoo · 09-03-2003, 12:43 PM

And why not 2 'helicoilds'? Or 3? Or 4?

starbuck3733t · 09-03-2003, 12:58 PM

very interesting. I know jack about the subject, but as you said if it developed higher pressure it could be useful in blocks like the WW and the cascade

Also, since the pressure matters and not the volume, a screw pump could be made much smaller.. yes?

Jewfro · 09-03-2003, 01:39 PM

You might also be able to make one small enough that you could elongate a block inlet and stick one of those in.....could work wonders.

hydrogen18 · 09-03-2003, 03:43 PM

archimedes water screw. I dont think it could develop large amounts of pressure as the archimedes had to be a screw all the way to the source where the water was needed.

bigben2k · 09-03-2003, 03:55 PM

Pressure is going to be an issue.

In oil drilling, they use a similar concept. It's a lobe pump, but both the rotor and stator have lobes. The rotor has 1 fewer lobes than the stator.

Depending on the diameter of the rotor/stator assembly, and the number of lobes used, they can either drill for "high torque" or "high speed", depending of course, on the type of material that's being drilled (sand, shale, granite, mineral deposits,...)

High torque would be your high pressure. In this case though, you'd use the concept in reverse: drive the rotor (electrically?), instead of what they do out in the oil fields: pump fluid down at various pressures and flow rates.

Cathar · 09-03-2003, 05:28 PM

That's the Archimedes' Screw Pump.

Good for lifting water up heights, but sucks for pressure unless it was used to raise water up some height to a gravity feed reservoir.

What you really want to be looking at is the "Quimby Screw Pump", variants of which are what's typically used in hydraulics and the like.

Basically it's two screw/rotors meshing side by side creating two "pockets" that move along. The meshing prevents back-flow down the screws allowing for fairly stupendous pressures to be reached (~5000PSI). I once saw a plexiglass cased "demo" version of one that was about 20cm long.

A really nice little intro web page on pumps can be found here:

http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/pumpglos.htm

bigben2k · 09-03-2003, 06:21 PM

Nice link, but I can't find my pump in there!

That's a similar concept. That Quimby pump has the stuff box in lower pressure, which could be an advantage: stuff boxes are something I've never liked dealing with.

myv65 · 09-03-2003, 08:41 PM

If anyone would like to see one in operation, head to your nearest wastewater treatment plant. They are the norm for the "headworks" because they lift water with all manner of, um, solids in it.

As for pressure, who are you guys kidding? When is the last time anyone had more than a few psi in their water cooling setup?

If they were an economical solution to low flow, low pressure pumps, we would see more available. As things are, cheap centrifugals dominate the pond pump market.

satanicoo · 09-03-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
What you really want to be looking at is the "Quimby Screw Pump", variants of which are what's typically used in hydraulics and the like.

Basically it's two screw/rotors meshing side by side creating two "pockets" that move along. The meshing prevents back-flow down the screws allowing for fairly stupendous pressures to be reached (~5000PSI).

I kept thinking and thinking, and i just cant see where those "pockets" are created.
I checked the site you gave (a very nice one indeed) and i still cant visualize it.
I mean, if there is a pocket on a screw, when it is rotating, shouldn't the pocket turn to the side and loose the water? :shrug:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
I once saw a plexiglass cased "demo" version of one that was about 20cm long.

A really nice little intro web page on pumps can be found here:

http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/pumpglos.htm

Clear plexiglass pump..... that should look sooo L33T!
Could you please remenber the link?

Quote:

Originally posted by myv65
If they were an economical solution to low flow, low pressure pumps, we would see more available. As things are, cheap centrifugals dominate the pond pump market.

True indeed, but if anyone in this site was going for economical solutions, Cathar wouldn't sell a single Silver Cascade block!
It's a matter of an investment...

But that idea of a clear plexiglass pump like that just left me thinking....
On that site there is also a multi impeller pump, wich achieves better pressure, maybe doing it all in clear plexiglass!
I dunno... :shrug:

satanicoo · 09-03-2003, 09:30 PM

Recessive Spral Pump
http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/glrecess.htm

Should anyone built an inpeller like this and adapt it to a pump, say the results later

mfpmax · 09-03-2003, 10:09 PM

NASA deveolped a heart pump using a screw design. Uses two different pitches or something.

The things you learn from NASA TV.

09-03-2003, 12:58 PM	#3
starbuck3733t Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: State College, PA Posts: 338	very interesting. I know jack about the subject, but as you said if it developed higher pressure it could be useful in blocks like the WW and the cascade Also, since the pressure matters and not the volume, a screw pump could be made much smaller.. yes? __________________ Goliath: 3.4E@3.91/Abit IC7, Maze4 (temporarily) + custom splitter to crazy 4-way watercooling parallel loop: X800XT @ 520/1280 + AC Twinplex, AC Twinplex Northbridge, Silenstar Dual HDD Cooler, Eheim1250, '85 econoline van HC + 2x120, 1x120 exhaust - polished aluminum frame panaflo L1As, 2x18GB 10K RPM U160 SCSI, 4GB PC4000. I wanna be BladeRunner when I grow up! Project Goliath - nearing completion.

09-03-2003, 03:55 PM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Pressure is going to be an issue. In oil drilling, they use a similar concept. It's a lobe pump, but both the rotor and stator have lobes. The rotor has 1 fewer lobes than the stator. Depending on the diameter of the rotor/stator assembly, and the number of lobes used, they can either drill for "high torque" or "high speed", depending of course, on the type of material that's being drilled (sand, shale, granite, mineral deposits,...) High torque would be your high pressure. In this case though, you'd use the concept in reverse: drive the rotor (electrically?), instead of what they do out in the oil fields: pump fluid down at various pressures and flow rates. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-03-2003, 06:21 PM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Nice link, but I can't find my pump in there! That's a similar concept. That Quimby pump has the stuff box in lower pressure, which could be an advantage: stuff boxes are something I've never liked dealing with. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-03-2003, 10:09 PM	#12
mfpmax Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rockledge,FL,US Posts: 731	NASA deveolped a heart pump using a screw design. Uses two different pitches or something. The things you learn from NASA TV. __________________ My old and retired watercooling setup. Watercooled K6-2 450 at 600 Also Retired - Watercooling an XP1800@1782MHz

09-03-2003, 01:39 PM	#4
Jewfro Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 33	You might also be able to make one small enough that you could elongate a block inlet and stick one of those in.....could work wonders.

09-03-2003, 03:43 PM	#5
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	archimedes water screw. I dont think it could develop large amounts of pressure as the archimedes had to be a screw all the way to the source where the water was needed.

09-03-2003, 05:28 PM	#7
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	That's the Archimedes' Screw Pump. Good for lifting water up heights, but sucks for pressure unless it was used to raise water up some height to a gravity feed reservoir. What you really want to be looking at is the "Quimby Screw Pump", variants of which are what's typically used in hydraulics and the like. Basically it's two screw/rotors meshing side by side creating two "pockets" that move along. The meshing prevents back-flow down the screws allowing for fairly stupendous pressures to be reached (~5000PSI). I once saw a plexiglass cased "demo" version of one that was about 20cm long. A really nice little intro web page on pumps can be found here: http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/pumpglos.htm

09-03-2003, 08:41 PM	#9
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	If anyone would like to see one in operation, head to your nearest wastewater treatment plant. They are the norm for the "headworks" because they lift water with all manner of, um, solids in it. As for pressure, who are you guys kidding? When is the last time anyone had more than a few psi in their water cooling setup? If they were an economical solution to low flow, low pressure pumps, we would see more available. As things are, cheap centrifugals dominate the pond pump market.

09-03-2003, 09:30 PM	#11
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Recessive Spral Pump http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/glrecess.htm Should anyone built an inpeller like this and adapt it to a pump, say the results later

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