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Unread 03-26-2007, 01:30 PM   #1
Phoenix32
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Default SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Well, we beat SNAP OS limits with the 4100 and 4000 (as well as some 1x00 and 2x00 units) into the ground, so let's see what we can do with Guardian OS units. Or more specifically the SNAP 4500 and 4200 (and maybe 4400).

We know they came in 640, 720, 1000, and 1600 GB versions. We also know replacement drives/sleds can be purchased up to 400 GB. From this, we know a 4200 or 4500 can do 1.6TB then. But, can it do 2.0TB with 4 x 500 GB or 3.0TB with 4 x 750 GB drives? Is 4 x 400 GB the limit? Or, did Adaptec just stop at 400 GB with these units because they are no longer current?

We -think- the newer v4 Guardian OS is based on Redhat Linux (I don't think we know this one for 100% sure yet do we). But, can we base limits on this? We do not know what was modified or left out when they wrote the Guardian OS. Thus, even if we knew for sure it was Redhat, does that really prove anything for our limits?

It would be real easy to sit back and say, "Yup, sure looks like it will handle more". But given the cost of 4 x 500 GB or 4 x 750 GB drives, I don't know about you, but I don't have that kind of money to throw around for experimenting.

Has anyone here tried more than 4 x 400 GB drives in a 4200 or 4500? (or even a 4400 maybe)? If so, what was the results please?

Has anyone got a really good belief based on solid evidence that the 4200 or 4500 (or even 4400) will do more than 4 x 400 GB drives? If so, what is your evidence please?
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Unread 03-26-2007, 02:09 PM   #2
blue68f100
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

We do know that Adaptec is offering the newer models 520 with:
Quote:
4 x 250GB 7200 RPM hot-swappable SATA drives (1TB raw capacity)
4 x 500GB 7200 RPM hot-swappable SATA drives (2TB raw capacity)
4 x 750GB 7200 RPM hot-swappable SATA drives (3TB raw capacity)
But we do not know if there is any hardware restriction. The OS seams to support up to 24T using iSCSI.

For OS Kernel, the serial port capture says this"
Quote:
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
At one time I there was some documents saying Gentoo Linux

I have been told that it is now RedHat. No confirmation either way.
__________________
1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 03-26-2007, 04:45 PM   #3
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

the serial port capture also says this:

Quote:
Linux version 2.4.19-gos-up (root@BuildSys-2) (gcc version 3.2.2) #1 Wed Mar 29
08:00:21 PST 2006
If its important.

Side note: Seems bios is locked down with a password. Anyone have an idea on what it is?
3shots and the machine just boots.

Last edited by webboy; 03-26-2007 at 04:51 PM.
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Unread 03-26-2007, 07:33 PM   #4
blue68f100
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

I hooded up a monitor and keyboard and was not locked. Did not try it through the com port. Might try the default password for the GuardianOS.

What Guardian OS version are you running? UPDATED Read Below

Update: Your 4400 dump has the same info as mine, We Must be on the same OS version.

Quote:
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
__________________
1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

Last edited by blue68f100; 03-26-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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Unread 03-26-2007, 08:02 PM   #5
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue68f100
I hooded up a monitor and keyboard and was not locked. Did not try it through the com port. Might try the default password for the GuardianOS.
There is no mouse and keyboard ports on a 4400
usb and com only

what is the default password?
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Unread 03-26-2007, 08:34 PM   #6
blue68f100
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

User: admin
PW: admin
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1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 03-27-2007, 04:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix32
We -think- the newer v4 Guardian OS is based on Redhat Linux (I don't think we know this one for 100% sure yet do we).
Hi Andy,

When the Guardian OS was first released on the 4400 the Snap Appliance Dudes told us that the Guardian OS was definitely based on Red Hat Linux for the advanced features that it offered like; better security and integration into windows and mixed environments, then it was poked and prodded into what it is today…

From a REP; I heard later that they stopped saying this (the bit about Red Hat Linux) publicly when a guru or two started typing Linux commands into it and managed to really screw their Snap Servers up, the Guardian OS might take some of the commands but they never made up a manual on what not to type...

I didn’t ever hear if there was a fix for this as it didn’t happen to any of my customers but as the OS is totally on the drives I would imagine it would not be that hard?
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Unread 03-27-2007, 09:04 AM   #8
Phoenix32
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Has anyone tried drives larger than 4 x 400 GB in a SNAP 4200/4500 or 4400?


Might be a moot point for me. Seems Hitachi and Seagate are the only ones making IDE drives over 320 GB. The Hitachis have had very poor reviews (high failure rates and high heat). The Seagates have had good reviews, but I am not a fan of Seagate, so...

But this info may still be useful to others...
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Unread 04-02-2007, 10:19 AM   #9
Phoenix32
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

I think I asked this once before quite a while back, but I will ask again anywise...


Do any of you have drive sleds for the 4200/4500, or know where I can get some? I need 3 drive sleds for a 4500. Yes, I know you can buy replacement drives (with the sleds) from various sources, but $400 for a 250 GB drive is totally unreasonable.

If you have any drives sleds, or know where I can get some, please leave me a PM here on the forum or send me an e-mail at phoenix32x@hotmail.com

Thank you...
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Unread 04-02-2007, 12:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Are the drive sleds from the 725n the same as the 4500?
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Unread 04-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschw95458

Are the drive sleds from the 725n the same as the 4500?
I don't know. I do know the 4200/4500 sleds are not the same as the 4400, and the 4400 and 715N use the same sleds. But as far as the 725N, I have no idea, I wish I did.

Note: The sleds for the 4200/4500 are very slightly shorter than the 4400 sled. I think David and somone else (Sorry, I forget who now) posted some pictures of the 4500, 4400, and 715N drive sleds here somewhere a week or so ago.

Last edited by Phoenix32; 04-02-2007 at 02:57 PM.
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Unread 04-02-2007, 02:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

The 4500 are shorter, about 0.375" and has "U" to one side of the V slot.
__________________
1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 04-02-2007, 03:07 PM   #13
Phoenix32
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

David provided me with some pictures of some sleds. In both pictures, the sled on the top is the sled from a 715N (which we think is the same as the 4400) and the lower sled is from a 4500 (same as a 4200 also). I need the type in the lower picture. If you look close, there is a U shaped slot on the bottom side near the back of the 4500 sled.

Also, David looked up the sled of the 725N, in a digram type picture, and it appears it is the same (or similar) to the sleds used in the 4200/4500, but it is difficult to tell in a diagram type picture.

eschw95458, do you have a 725N sled to compare to? And if they are the same, do you have or know where I can get some of these sleds?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sleds-1.JPG (23.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Sleds-2b.jpg (99.8 KB, 20 views)
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Unread 04-02-2007, 03:48 PM   #14
eschw95458
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

No unfortunately I don't, I have a 4400, and a 715n unit here, But I have a couple of photos that I pulled from the web
snapp_top.jpg snapp_back.jpg Snap
725n_2.jpg 725n_3.jpg 725n
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Unread 04-02-2007, 04:47 PM   #15
Phoenix32
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

They sure do look a lot alike don't they...


But anywise, if anyone knows where I can get some drive sleds, please let me know...
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Unread 04-02-2007, 05:19 PM   #16
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix32
They sure do look a lot alike don't they...


But anywise, if anyone knows where I can get some drive sleds, please let me know...
Well i wont help you! you stole that 4500 at 325!

there are a couple of sleds with drives available on ebay. steep though.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search...ap+drive+sleds
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Unread 04-02-2007, 10:50 PM   #17
Phoenix32
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by webboy

Well i wont help you! you stole that 4500 at 325!
I am sorry you feel that way. You could have offered it before I did or more than I did, I mean it was up for over a week. But I will be sure to remember that the next time someone else needs help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by webboy

there are a couple of sleds with drives available on ebay. steep though.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search...ap+drive+sleds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix32

I know you can buy replacement drives (with the sleds) from various sources, but $400 for a 250 GB drive is totally unreasonable.
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Unread 04-03-2007, 09:04 AM   #18
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Come on im just kiddin. I thought about bidding on it but with out the ability to get sleds at a resonable price i passed.

On another note.

Confirmed 4 750 gig drives in a 4400 looks like 2.04 TB Raid 5

Ill let eschw95458 fill you in on the rest
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Unread 04-07-2007, 12:01 AM   #19
Metal
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

I just picked up a 4400 yesterday with 4 180gb drives, would you guys care to share the details of the 4x 750gb upgrade?
I'm running an old 2.4.040 OS
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Unread 04-07-2007, 07:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

It's easy on a guardian unit. If yhe unit has not been reset back to factory settings do so. May want to look to see if he had any addon keys. or OS updates on the unit prior.

Break the raid5 array if built.
Power down and remove all drives execpt #1
Power backup, hot swap a new drive into position 2.
Powerup, once up hot swap the remaining hd,
then build your new raid5.
Done

I took 5 hr to build the 4x400gig raid5 in my 4500 so 750's should be around 7 hrs.
__________________
1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 04-07-2007, 07:59 AM   #21
Metal
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue68f100
It's easy on a guardian unit. If yhe unit has not been reset back to factory settings do so. May want to look to see if he had any addon keys. or OS updates on the unit prior.

Break the raid5 array if built.
Power down and remove all drives execpt #1
Power backup, hot swap a new drive into position 2.
Powerup, once up hot swap the remaining hd,
then build your new raid5.
Done

I took 5 hr to build the 4x400gig raid5 in my 4500 so 750's should be around 7 hrs.
Thanks, this one has the S2S key installed, I wasn't sure if that would follow the update or if I should copy the key down just in case.
I've been looking for a Guardian OS 3 and 4 version to load before I upgrade
but since the only snaps I've every owned were all 4000/4100 units I don't have any non Snap OS Sups.
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Unread 04-07-2007, 11:14 AM   #22
blue68f100
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

You need to record what that key is if you want it, do it any way just incase you change you mind. You can sync to your SnapOS with it. It is not included with the std load. It was replaced with another software package. If you pester Adaptec they may give you v2.6 which is required for AD support. Vista is only supported on v4.1 or 4.2
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1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 04-08-2007, 06:47 AM   #23
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Phoenix32,
I cant believe that guy wouldnt take 700 for that snap 4500.
Any way nice job whats your plan with 3 of these now?
Im not allowed to buy any more servers until i finish upgrading all mine.

Last edited by webboy; 04-08-2007 at 06:55 AM.
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Unread 04-08-2007, 07:55 PM   #24
blue68f100
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

He is spoiled with the speed of the 4500's, he will quickly retire/sell his SnapOS units.
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1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5,
1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5,
1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy

Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820
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Unread 04-09-2007, 08:52 AM   #25
webboy
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Default Re: SNAP 4500/4200 Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue68f100
He is spoiled with the speed of the 4500's, he will quickly retire/sell his SnapOS units.
I hear that. im planning on getting rid of my 4000 and 4100 very soon.
Now if i can only get this MaxAttach set up the way i want
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Snap 4000 (460 gigs) 3.4.805 (US)
Snap 4100 (224 gigs) 3.4.803 (US)
Snap 4400 (500 gigs) GuardianOS 4.1.106
Snap 4400 (500 gigs) GuardianOS 4.1.106
Snap 4400 (1.09 TD) GuardianOS 4.1.106
MaxAttach 4300 (520 gigs) win2K3
ReadyNaS 600 (Dev Box) (1.03 TB) X-Raid
ReasyNaS 1000S waiting for drives
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