[H] WB roundup

[Joe]

Bill you were banned for that post??? hehehe I think stevie is distancing himself as far away from smart people as possible in order to look better while spewing forth mass amounts of inept bullshit.

Bill I banned you just cause I thought you were an asshole ( then I realized you are just naturally grumpy hehehe)

[Joe]

Man Steve sure talks big after he’s banned EVERYONE at procooling about procooling stuff. (and even ban's any one who refers to a "Joe" in their comments to him... hehehehe that’s just a riot!)

Dear Steve,
Since I know you are reading this thread ( which I take as a form of complement cause if you didn’t care about the site as you say... well then you wouldn’t read it), Your "challenge" is interesting and a nice trap. SO now, you displace the fact that your review has nothing but some nice hype, by blaming US for not posting something to compare it against... wonderful tactics.

I have tested, and will continue to test with greater accuracy, and attention to scientific details far more than you would even care about. I also don’t take "challenges" from hacks who cant seem to do it right themselves and need someone else to show them the way.

Will ProCooling do reviews? Sure. Will it be because you told us to? hell no, like the BS you are spewing to your minions matters at all to me. I challenge you to grow up? which one you think will happen first, us do a review, or you growing up... hell it may take 2 years for us to do a review (hehehe) but you surely will still be the same freak who can't comprehend testing something properly.

Keep up the great threads over at the HF, they make for some fun reading, even if they never address the issues of the review but just seem to focus on us... you got a thing for procooling? I am thinking you are just a closet PC fan and this is how you want to get us to post more goodies Don't worry buddy we will get some stuff up for you soon!

hehehe This whole topic has lost any sense of seriousness to me, and is more a joke than anything. You obviously don’t listen to anything except the people who say "that’s a good review!" so why should anyone waste their time trying to tell you other wise. I just find if funny to read your constant attacks on procooling... Oh but in other posts you said you don’t do that...

get some help man, or some locktite, some screws are coming loose...

[bigben2k]

You know, I'm glad I was banned from HF: there's too much 'noise', and I wouldn't care to post anything there anyways.

I'll consider this ban as part of my initiation for joining ProCooling!

LOL@72 510!

BillA: I have to admit, you come off a bit sharp sometimes, and it can be a distraction, but you are consistent, and there is always a clever thought in your posts. I for one am really glad that you check in with us once in a while! (and straighten me up too ).

[Cyco-Dude]

Originally posted by pHaestus
Gay porn stars make more money on the web than I do as well. That doesn't mean I am rushing off to have sweaty mansex in front of a webcam though. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I am not an artist either, but if one who was took a crap on a paper plate and called it sculpture I would decline to buy it.

LOLOL@PH

ehhehehehe, funny shitz 4 sure


about this whole deal, perhaps the problem is that some ppl dont understand thats its not neccessarily the numbers that are correct or not, but its the 'big picture' (or lack thereof) thats the real issue? just trying to put my finger on this....

and 1 thing - these personal attacks are not only childish, but pretty damn ignorant..................

[jaydee]

Originally posted by bigben2k


BillA: I have to admit, you come off a bit sharp sometimes, and it can be a distraction, but you are consistent, and there is always a clever thought in your posts. I for one am really glad that you check in with us once in a while! (and straighten me up too ).

Yeah, BillA (unregistered) is alright. I am on his ignore list so he will not see this but it probably doesn't matter to him anyway. pHaestus is alright to. We have are differences of opinions and our own pride to worsen our positions sometimes but it's all good. I am in the "It's Good Enough" croud myself so maybe I should be a [H] member instead of a procooling member. And some of you probably wish I were!

I understand the reasoning for accurate measurements and see how they "could" be usefull. The problem I see is by the time this data is figured out for current blocks it will all be unusefull because of system changes that will not work with current blocks or just plain better blocks in the future. A possible never ending cycle untill CPU's get so small it will be impossible to mount a waterblock (which may not be all that far off). Seems to me like it is just a lost cause in the end. Non the less some of the manufactures would go out of business buying the needed equipment. Some of those are good manufactures to. I would like to see them do this aswell but unless it goes mainstream I don't see it happening to soon if at all.

Non the less if you are going to do a review now days it would be good to cover more bases I guess. As one that makes his own blocks I don't really rely on temps as a gauge on how well the block performs. The computer tells me how well it is performing (this is probably hard to grasp for some). Temps are a small guide but system performace is the true and final result IMO. Unfortunatly most either don't know how or have not the tools to make their own blocks and they do have to rely on a review or roundup. I can see both arguments from procooling veiw point and [H]'s about the review in question. The probelm I see is there is a block named the "Top Choice" or something to that effect. With a review as little detailed as the one in question it probably would be best not to name a top performer but to just let the people decide on which they perfer. Any of the 19 blocks can be tuned to give decent performance one way or another, but the top 5 will all probably be easier to get to perform better. The average water cooler is not going to be able to calculate all the variables of the system he plans to buy so he just works with what he decides from the info given which IMO is "Good Enough" to make a decent decision even if it isn't perfect. I really don't see how the user is going to go to wrong by buying one of the top 5-10 blocks in that roundup no matter what other parts he/she has. So in that view the review works by at least showing what is available and a general idea if it is decent or not. Even with the flawed testing method I belive it is "Good Enough" or at least better than nothing at all. Hell I like to look at roundups more to just see what is out there!!

As for the person who wrote the review I think he as a few issues he needs to work on, but who desn't. I know I do and I try to resolve them.

It is way to late for me to be thinking so I will stop rambling.

[gogo]

For the most part I agree with Jaydee116, somewhat. As someone who still hasn’t had funds to be water cooled, first and foremost I need to know what works. To Steve’s credit, he appears to have set up a pretty generic system that is a good representation of the average ‘kit’ you can buy (Sadly he never states this) from a good majority of the suppliers, (excluding the block) For the most part, (Eheim 1250 pump, Black Ice Radiator.) which is probably what most of his readers would buy, or put together for their first system. It’s what I was going to do until I realized after further reading (on my part) that I could build a better system cheaper and more tailored to my needs. Me, being the cheap anal-retentive bastard that I am. What we don’t know is the inlet, outlet or tubing diameters, (keeping H2O velocity the same) can change the performance of the setup to a noticeable degree, pun not intended. I assumed (could make an ass of me) that whatever tubing he used, was the same for all blocks. We also don’t know how much air was being pushed through the radiator, but I assume it was the same for all testing.

“We understand that various aspects of a complete system all effect the overall cooling ability of any given water block, but we will not be including data like ”temperature in and out of the radiator” etc., because ultimately what really matters is the final temperatures achieved by each block at the CPU in a controlled environment.” – Steve @ [H]

(Is this different than when I read it before?) The last part is correct, kind of. Yes, ultimately the final temps are what matter, but I would have like to have seen an average of at least 3 runs/reseats. The other thing I have an issue with is this from the Intel stats page
“What's most impressive this time around isn’t so much that most blocks run within a few degrees of their idle temps, it's actually the temperature delta between performance air cooling (the Alpha 8942) and the leaders of the pack...almost 50°F.” – Steve @ [H].
OK, but without the inlet/outlet temps of the radiator I can’t accurately compare the delta of the water blocks. Or am I looking at that wrong? Moving on with temperatures, what Steve has shown, is that with this system, (representing the average kit, though not stated as such but implied) certain blocks remain the top performers throughout. This is just what his readers want to see. For now. Some of them will buy a kit, slap it together, see their temps are lower and the system is quieter and call it good. A few others will buy a kit, (or maybe piece one together) see the temps, say “hey that’s good, but I wonder if I can get them lower” and they go out and add a really high CFM fan. Then there are a few others who have to know how everything works (me), they may or may not buy a kit. They will find out more info, as much as possible most likely. The round up in question is a good starting point.
“What we hope to do is offer a little information on a wide variety of blocks in order to help you make a more informed decision when you contemplate what block is right for you.” – Steve @ [H].
This is what he (Steve) said they would do, and that is what he did. He provided a ‘little’ bit of information, (maybe just a little bit too little.) to ‘help’, not decide for you.

What I would’ve liked to have seen were links (typing it all up would be redundant and a waste of space, since it’s elsewhere) to more information, i.e. how tubing size, flow rate, different setups, etc. can affect temps and performance in general. While it is feasible to test each block with different setups, it certainly is not cost effective. Especially in regards to his audience, who for the most part don’t care? (If I was still in H.S. or lower college levels my brain may be too full too. ) I would also have liked to have seen more system stats. A link with a list of temps, and tubing, and pics etc, like the do there screenshot links would’ve been good. Then again I am not really his target audience.

As for the banning, personal attacks, hurt egos, snapped bras, I look at it as a problem with all forums. People type like they are having a conversation, but respond like a post was a final thought. There are exceptions of course. The problem sometimes is that anger is a mask. Covering usually, frustration, ignorance, crushed egos, and the inability to get your point across in writing do to wanting to get your post up in a timely fashion. If more people would read post with a neutral attitude, a lot of that kind of crap would cease. But that’s not going to happen, human nature über alles. It’s what makes life interesting. I’m guilty, but I still realize it’s pretty stupid.

As far as Steve's 'challenge'...
These are two different types of sites.
[H] is a 'review' site. - How well does this product perform for what I need it to do?
Pro-Cooling (though I don't know if this is Joe's intent) Is an engineering/scientific site.- Here is how this product works, here is our data so you can recreate the experiment, which takes into consideration, does this product perform as advertised?

The latter is more of my interest which is why I prefer pro-cooling, and pretty much just read the entertaining 'news' on [H].

[mfpmax]

Pro Cooling is like Benchtest.com, but with a forum and a bunch of weirdos arguing in a forum about what mill bits are the best

Oh...and a staff.

Myself, I have had my mind set on a waterblock for months(years?)...and its been the Danger Den Maze series...its the only one within my price range, and its avaible in the states(unlike its next competition, the Cyclone).

My other components will be based on price and past experience from others in a real world application(read: more than 6 months of use).

[Fixittt]

Ok, whats this shit about the GEMINI spiral block being revolutionary and shit????? The Spir@l was out way before that block. I think somone needs to get facts straight.


UNIQUE DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!

[mfpmax]

Originally posted by Fixittt
Ok, whats this shit about the GEMINI spiral block being revolutionary and shit????? The Spir@l was out way before that block. I think somone needs to get facts straight.


UNIQUE DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!

Its because it is so 2001

On the other hand, where is that Engine Case mod

[sunblade]

Originally posted by Fixittt
Ok, whats this shit about the GEMINI spiral block being revolutionary and shit????? The Spir@l was out way before that block. I think somone needs to get facts straight.


UNIQUE DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!

Don't worry fixittt, I have a Spir@l Actually I remember seeing the Spir@l for the first time on the [H] forums???

But back to the topic, I think the [H] is spending way too much time defending their 19 block roundup spectacular (only on HBO). They should just take the top 3-5 blocks from the roundup and do an indepth article testing the blocks with different flow rates, different radiators, different tubing sizes perhaps. Steve seems to be treating this roundup like it's the last article he will ever write. Does he know something we don't? Maybe he only has 6 months left

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by sunblade
Steve seems to be treating this roundup like it's the last article he will ever write. Does he know something we don't? Maybe he only has 6 months left

People will defend crap much more vehemently than facts. Witness religion. Non-facts need apologists. Facts are their own defense.

Bob

[BillA]

nicely put Bob

[Cyco-Dude]

heh, i dont think Kyle likes PC

"SystemCooling is showing off an great example of water-cooling done right. A real pro cooling job."
i could be wrong tho, hehhehe

(that would be SComp's case featured in that article )

[sunblade]

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
heh, i dont think Kyle likes PC

"SystemCooling is showing off an great example of water-cooling done right. A real pro cooling job."
i could be wrong tho, hehhehe

(that would be SComp's case featured in that article )

Hrmm, so is he:

A.) Attacking ProCooling
B.) Saying [H]'s 19 block roundup was not professional
C.) Both
D.) It doesn't matter because SComp posts here

[pHaestus]

Ah yes System Cooling. Those are the "aluminum cases act like giant heatsinks" people.

Pro indeed.

I'll have my PC-50 posted this week. You won't see it linked on H|OCP though...

[clone]

LOL i love it
so basicly he is trying to insult procooling by useing a pro/forums members computer to insulte us with is that self defetive by him useing pro/forums members stuff agenst us but no knowing it he is basicly say ya what i am try to fight you with is a pro/member any way LOL i love it

[sunblade]

Too bad 75% of the [H] members won't be able to read the posts that made Kyle's comment relevant.

I like ratpadz, tho...

[DarkEdge]

For some reason I like my felt mouse pad over the ratpadz and the everglides. I kinda like the cloth feeling. They do get dirty though.

[pHaestus]

I am a ratpadz fanboy as well. I haven't bothered to try anything since then though cause it works so well with intellimouse explorer

[Joe]

I agree, I have long really liked my "Ratpadz" pad. With that said I think there should be a difference between what the wonder duo over there does in reviews and what they do otherwise on the web. Kyle is not at all a dumb ass, hes a smart business man by all accounts. ( has to be since he makes his living off the site) His ratpadz venture was also a great development. My only bitch is with the quality of the reviews that have come out. Kyles reviews often are more complete and realistic than Steves. Steve often focuses on the superficial and covers the bare minimum. They also seem to assume the readers are simple and dont like big words or big numbers.

Thats the exact opposite to ProCooling reviews where often we can be accused of including too much superfluous data that the general public may not find that interesting. We still want it there cause its always better to have more data in a review than too little...

[mfpmax]

I just got the systemcooling.com link reference...



Had to goto the H|OCP front page...which I don't do often anymore.

[Puzzdre]

Thats the exact opposite to ProCooling reviews where often we can be accused of including too much superfluous data that the general public may not find that interesting. We still want it there cause its always better to have more data in a review than too little...

Well, I'm not exactly a tech freak, but not exactly considering myself a part of general public, so I'll say only this:

IMO it's always good to see (too)much data, interesting or not, today I can handle one half of it, but I know there is more to learn. If I cannot cope with it on my own, I can always ask someone of you guys.
Living with at least variables as possible is maybe easy and quickly acceptable by large part of the wc society, and there are certainly lots of places for them.

Let's keep this site as it was - goooooooooooooooooooddddddd!

[DarkEdge]

Theres not a problem with having to much data. You just have to sum it up for the general public in simpler terms.

Damnit. Speaking of mousepads. I want a procooling mousepad. That would make my day if not year.

[Cyco-Dude]

Originally posted by DarkEdge
Theres not a problem with having to much data. You just have to sum it up for the general public in simpler terms.

my thoughts exactly.

[mfpmax]

look, thats yet another front page link to work done by a ProCooling member.