WC, where to start?

[SiGfever]

I suggest reading every sticky and thread that you can to get the knowledge to make a real informed decision.

There is a lot of real nice pieces parts and now some great kits on the market. ThermoChill is the "King of Rads" and after you hold one up to a competitor's rad you will see why. Run the rad in a pull configuration using Yate Loon fans and you can use a shroad if you want but it is not required with the ThermoChill.

The DDC-2 (or called "Ultra" or "Plus") is the top pump for performance vs heat dump on the market today with a 50,000 hr MTBF. The Alphacool Plexi top using the top inlet is a mod worth doing.

The MP-05 SP LE and the Storm rev2 are two of the top CPU blocks on the market topped by the G5. A Maze4 Acetal GPU or the MCW60 or two of the better choices for non-full coverage blocks with EK Waterblocks being the best for full coverage blocks. Buy the Swiftech ram heatsinks for the vid ram.

When it comes to tubing Tygon or MasterKlear 7/16"id 5/8"od is the best choice over 1/2" barbs.

Chemicals: 99.?% Distilled or Deionized water, 1oz antifreeze and 4-5 drops of non-alcohol Iodine.

The more research that you do the more the options people give you will make sense and you will be able to sift through the numerous choices and pick what is right for you. JMO

http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html

[ricecrispi]

Don't go for maze4 gpu WB.
I got of them for $25 so it was cheap but was disappointed in quality and overall design.

AquaXtreme MP-1 Universal GPU Water Block
mcw - 60 or mcw - 55
Silverprop Cyclone Fusion
should out perform maze4 by a mile.

[Madnys]

Apogee sucks, the base plate is thin and some people have issues with intel and outlet wall width being to small ( less than 1mm )

Swiftech Storm G4
PA120.3 with 3 Yate Loons @ 7v

do not water cool chipset, hard drives or ram it is just a waste, make sure they get plenty of air flow and there would be no probs with them

quoted from marci
"After testing and frustration with 1/2"ID/3/4"OD tubing, I researched and found 7/16"ID/5/8"OD tubing to be the near perfect tubing solution."


AND MOST IMPORTANT
Alphacool DDC Ultra (18w)

this is the best pump on the market, out preforms the 655 by miles and is also made Liang, its the Liang MCP350 (offically called Liang DDC Ultra but is just a 18w of the MCP350) with more head and the added alphacool top adds more flow. There is no pump that can beat it.

With the setup I just describe it is the best on market today, Macri ( one of the inventers of the PA rads) describe this as the best setup today
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=18170
( G7 is refeering to the storm G4 but is made of silver and has more jetlets)

more on the pump
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13323
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13392

as for your questions eariler,
1. Pump, Rad, CPU, GPU, Pump I believe the reason is because its better to have cooler CPUs which tend to be more heat sensitive, and when you OC it puts more stress on it so its alot easyer to topple.

2. Jus make it so your rad draws air from out side in, the rad only makes the air 2-4C warmer than ambient, not much to worry about with plenty of ventilations.

3.Fan controllers ( google it ) i used the Gate Watch

4. Using Copper and Alu the alu will corrode through prolonged usage, there should be no metal in a good pump that touches the water ( they use ceramic which helps to reduce heat dump also)

5. It has been proven that higher temps cause more stress on the components so I dont see why reduced temp wouldnt incrase the life span.

6. Worm clamps with the little bumps I like to use, jus make sure the clamp you use has equal pressure all around (worm camps dont tend to be perfectly circle, if it has little bumps on the inside I find they hold much tighter)

7. I have my t line above the pump about 6-8 inches from the inlet seems to be good.

8.low would be better

9.the liang pump i said has a 100,000 mean time between failure which happens to be 11 years, if using all copper solution they will stand the test of time

10. as long as no water escapes out of it and it is feed water into the line it will be fine

[migueld]

Guys you are recommending overkill components at overkill prices. I'd rather have buka spend more money on a better conroe or gpu chip than the wallet-thief thermochill 120.3. I mean, come on

The PA120.3 and Swiftech Storm G4 and DDC plus etc are pure luxury to what buka needed. Buka's conroe can be easily cooled with a simple Swiftech kit which comes with the nice Apogee, DDC, and single 120 rad. It comes with everything, from clamps to radbox for $150 at www.subzeropcs.com. And buka wanted quieter. A DDC plus is loud as heck, I'd recommend the DDC 10w.

Tygon tubing? Clearflex is more than fine at half the cost or more.

[SiGfever]

I am still amazed at how many people will spend small fortunes on the computer components but when it comes to something as important as the cooling system then that is where they want to get cheap.

And I have a DDC-2TPMP and this little guy is silent.

[migueld]

Originally Posted by SiGfever

I am still amazed at how many people will spend small fortunes on the computer components but when it comes to something as important as the cooling system then that is where they want to get cheap.

And I have a DDC-2TPMP and this little guy is silent.

I am amazed at the fortunes spent on cooling components outweighting the computer components themselves.

I was browsing for some HD waterblocks the other day, and the PolarFlo HDD46 water block is more expensive than the hard drive it cools! Which brings me to the next quest of building a cheap HD wb...

BTW, I went through 2 DDCs 18w and both were loud, at least by SPCR standards.

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by SiGfever

I am still amazed at how many people will spend small fortunes on the computer components but when it comes to something as important as the cooling system then that is where they want to get cheap.

And I have a DDC-2TPMP and this little guy is silent.

I'm all for quality, but I agree that the 18W pump is overkill unless he is running an overclocked prescott. The Conroe 2 Dual does really well with mid-range components. The cheaper swiftech blocks or Cooltechnica blocks would really be enough to keep the chip well within Intel recommended limits. It wouldn't win any temperature contests, but I didn't think that was what he was trying to do.

Edit: what I mean by paying for quality would be getting a really reliable and quiet pump as well as a good tubing (tygon or such) and a good fan. Also, by using a PA160, you can use a lot quieter fan and still cool the thing off. You'll see more difference in noise (still with good temps) by picking a better radiator+fan than by going with a G7.

[DVL73]

Originally Posted by Brians256

Edit: what I mean by paying for quality would be getting a really reliable and quiet pump as well as a good tubing (tygon or such) and a good fan. Also, by using a PA160, you can use a lot quieter fan and still cool the thing off. You'll see more difference in noise (still with good temps) by picking a better radiator+fan than by going with a G7.

Definitely. Only problem is the PA160 placement, because of the size, unless he opt for the external mount. Other option is low CFM 120.1 rad with single/dual silent fan set-up. If he would like little extra omph, PA120.2 with two silent fans is interesting option too, but again placement can be the issue.

[DVL73]

Originally Posted by migueld

BTW, I went through 2 DDCs 18w and both were loud, at least by SPCR standards.

Proper pump mount is a godsend, when we consider the noise. My DDC 18W version is mounted on antivibration rubber mounts in 3.5" cage and bottom cage side is covered with the AcoustiPack foam blocks (with the anechoic surface) just beneath the pump itself. They are absorbing the pump noise, additionally. Of course, there is just enough clearance so that pump can cool itself properly. Honestly, I have a hard time to tell when it's on - even at full throttle.

If you are adventurous enough, you may also build the custom "noise cancellation" box for the pump

[migueld]

I still can't believe how that 18w DDC isn't giving you high temperatures on your miniNG heatsinks when undervolting

But yea I guess it's possible to dampen the noise, especially at the bottom of the DDC where it's not sealed there is a lot of escaping noise. It's just that by nature the 18w is much louder than the 10w and thus requires more care. So I guess it depends on how much dampening you are willing to build/spend and how practical it'll turn on your rig.

On mine I didn't want the DDC on a bulky isolation box since it'd beat the purpose of compact pump, not to mention I'd have had to kill some hd or cd bay space and would limit mounting options.

Also don't forget that clear top is doing tons of noise isolation for you already, if you run it with the original top it'd be much noisier. I know mine was (DDC 10w). Even the DDC 10w was a bit noisy for my tastes until I bought the acrylic top. So added expenses there.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by DVL73

Definitely. Only problem is the PA160 placement, because of the size

ERm... the point of the PA160's dimensions was that it would fit in the lower front of a tower (or mid tower) - which was where a lot of watercooling folks were already mounting heatercores. Cathar did an extensive job of figuring out what the appropriate area / fin density would be for best low noise cooling (low power axial fan(s), and Marci got that translated into hardware.

Originally Posted by DVL73

Honestly, I have a hard time to tell when it's on - even at full throttle.

More than anything else, that's a function of your "noise floor".
IMHO nobody needs a PC more than a couple of db quieter than that. The problem is that we all have different "floors". Mine vary by time of day (late at night is quieter - duh) and winter, particularly with deep snow on the ground is quieter.

[DVL73]

Originally Posted by migueld

I still can't believe how that 18w DDC isn't giving you high temperatures on your miniNG heatsinks when undervolting

I may open the case again and check this for you, but as far as I remember it's not alarming temp state of the heatsinks.

Originally Posted by migueld

On mine I didn't want the DDC on a bulky isolation box since it'd beat the purpose of compact pump, not to mention I'd have had to kill some hd or cd bay space and would limit mounting options.

Generally, I don't use the bay space at all. I have only 2 big HDD in RAID1 (case bottom - hidden drive cage mount) and everything is attached externally and that includes the USB HDD, Plextor DVD/RW drive ... etc. Of course, for someone who has plenty of internal devices it could be a problem.

Originally Posted by migueld

Also don't forget that clear top is doing tons of noise isolation for you already, if you run it with the original top it'd be much noisier. I know mine was (DDC 10w). Even the DDC 10w was a bit noisy for my tastes until I bought the acrylic top. So added expenses there.

Oh yes, you are right. Completely forgot about that. Additionally, my drive bay cover is plexi too

[DVL73]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

ERm... the point of the PA160's dimensions was that it would fit in the lower front of a tower (or mid tower) - which was where a lot of watercooling folks were already mounting heatercores. Cathar did an extensive job of figuring out what the appropriate area / fin density would be for best low noise cooling (low power axial fan(s), and Marci got that translated into hardware.

Certainly. That's how it was and I watched (read only) that thread and PA160 developments with great interest. Actually, I bought the PA160 first day when it was available in the UK (from over-clock). Apart from everything else, it was a great feeling for me to purchase such product - as direct & great result of such collaboration and idea - born in this very forum. It was great to see that PA160 did evolved into the product, at the end of the day.

Anyhow, that's history now ... and what I was trying to say is that PA160 doesn't have that much "easy fit" and frequently users have to hack their cases a bit. Also, remember that it's not just radiator ... you have the big shroud and fan on top and that will increase the depth, no doubt. I couldn't mount PA160 in my case and I tried hard. This is the reason why I opted for the external mount. Of course, this is always the option and as additional bonus I guess that your radiator will benefit from the much cooler ambient air (than in the case itself).

Originally Posted by bobkoure

More than anything else, that's a function of your "noise floor".
IMHO nobody needs a PC more than a couple of db quieter than that. The problem is that we all have different "floors". Mine vary by time of day (late at night is quieter - duh) and winter, particularly with deep snow on the ground is quieter.

You see, my room is everything but not noise friendly. I have wooden floor, wooden window blinds and absolutely nothing to absorb the noise and I can hear every single bit of noise around I did research and spent a great deal of time how to improve things, related to noise. At the end, I'm pleased with the results and honestly can't see how it can be much better than this - unless my PSU is also water cooled

You are right, floors do have a great deal of influence in noise. This is the reason why my PC case is sitting on one big AcoustiPack foam block and anti-vibration soft feet (acoustifeet). It really helps. Also, for the PA160 or any other radiator, soft silicone fan gaskets are simply a must.

Picking up the low noise fan and pump is just one part of the story as there are many other,rather small, noise cancelaton tweaks and they can help too. Personally, I'm using the Acousti products and I can warmly recommend them. I tried other similar products (and yes, Akasa is pure crap) and Acousti is really standing with head and shoulders above others. If anyone is interested, my favourite produts:

AcoustiPack
AcoustiFeet
Fan Gaskets

[bobkoure]

No, sorry - noise floor as in the ambient level of background noise.
Anything below that floor will essentially disappear (sort-of - depends on frequencies and some other stuff).
I know how it is to have a noisy floor, though

[DVL73]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

No, sorry - noise floor as in the ambient level of background noise.
Anything below that floor will essentially disappear (sort-of - depends on frequencies and some other stuff).

OMG I did write my last post in a rush, and when I was looking at your quote I was quite positive that you referred to my pump mount and anechoic foam block "floor" of the pump and on this fact I based my "floor" story extension, later on. Then I spotted your comments about the winter and deep snow and it was like ... well something is not right. It was too late. Unbelievable

Anyhow, yes, your are right about the noise floor. We have many factors, influencing the final perception level or the floor of the noise. Time of the day, near by noise or ambient noise and the way how it's related to PC noise, room "structure", type of the furniture, type of the floor ...and so on and so on. As I already explained, my "acoustic" room situation is good example. On couple of occasions when I had to bring my home PC to the office, I was pretty much in disbelief that after initial power on I was questioning myself: "is it really ON ?!".

Sorry for going OT.